It was reported today that a trend in organising swine-flu parties was gathering pace with many parents thinking that if their children are infected when the swine-flu is in it's present weak state it might be a good idea for kids to get it and have a natural immmunity built up to it before any winter version comes on with more dangerous results.

This has been a common practice where chicken pox is concerned and in fact the authorities have quietly never tried to stop such events from occurring.

( After all, what happens if a vaccine is given is that the exact same immunity is developed from the denatured strain ).

The question is.....Will the government have an effective vaccine ready for everybody BEFORE the winter onset of this bug ?

What do YOU think ?

Maril....or anybody.

Sounds like utter madness to me !

Swine Flu is NOT like chicken pox and it never will be.

And anyway, even if people aquire immunity to the present form of swine flu by catching it when it is in it's weakened state does not mean that they will be immune when it comes back in the winter in a more dangerous form.

Our school doctor was talking to us about this and he said that because the flu virus is so good at changing itself there is no reason to suspect that when it comes back that it will be anything like the form we now see it in.

Even the people that are making the winter vaccine are not sure if the vaccine will be effective on the next strain that comes here.

Totally scary stuff.

Have you any advice for the plebs Annacat ?

I'm scared witless. I seen a swine flu bug walking down the street yesterday and couldn't run fast enough! don't worry i reported it though.

Funny how the people that have so far died from it have had 'Other' complications. Probably like being 98, or having congenital heart disease.

honestly I think people are talking themselves into getting this. Get a life.

Andrew

papa_umau wrote:It was reported today that a trend in organising swine-flu parties was gathering pace with many parents thinking that if their children are infected when the swine-flu is in it's present weak state it might be a good idea for kids to get it and have a natural immmunity built up to it before any winter version comes on with more dangerous results.

This has been a common practice where chicken pox is concerned and in fact the authorities have quietly never tried to stop such events from occurring.

You carry the chickenpox virus. In older age if you are unlucky - you may get a repeat in the form of shingles.


My cousin's husband is the best qualified in this family as he is a "lurgy specialist" as he calls viruses...

From what he tells us when we talk "shop" or have a "busman's day out" ...all viruses and bacteria will mutate for their own survival. How they affect a human body will depend on that person's general health as well. If you are in poor health or a weakened state - then a virus will attack more vitriolically on your system. That's part of the reason why those dead so far in the UK and France and Germany have died.

( After all, what happens if a vaccine is given is that the exact same immunity is developed from the denatured strain ).

It will be a measured dose - which will be based on an identified strain. These do reduce the effects of the flu - but do not necessarily mean you will not get the flu. It will just reduce the impact. Having a swine flu party means that the strain picked up will have mutated within the carrier's system and thus become potentially more dangerous as the flu virus is completely different in each respect to the chickenpox and other viruses.

The question is.....Will the government have an effective vaccine ready for everybody BEFORE the winter onset of this bug ?

What do YOU think ?

Maril....or anybody.

Tamiflu. UK has large stocks of this. It works against this strain and is a vere effective protection. Labs are currently testing and developing a vaccine specific to this strain - but Tamiflu apppears to be coping well to expectation at present. You get this from the doctor. The first ones up are those already on flu jabs and then it will be rolled out to the rest of the population if the BMJ is to be believed


But if you think you have the flu .. any kind of flu or even a very bad cold. Stay in bed .. with lemon/honey/chicken broth.

Wash hands regularly. Have an antibacterial hand wash to hand. The type which requires no water nor a towel. Use a paper hankerchief. Dispose in bin. I wrap mine in "pop-ins" - disinfected bags designed for female stuff originally - but I use them to pop discarded snot tissues to prevent further germ spread.


If symptoms persist .. get GP to make home visit if very vulnerable. If you have to go to the surgery .. again take your hankies/pop-in bags/hhandbag antibacterail wash (Dettol do a very nice lavender or lemony scenty one)

Make sure diet is healthy - with a fair balance of citrus fruits and other essential vitamins and minerals. Hot home made chicken noodle soup is a particulary good remedy too . (Chicken pieces.. chicken stock.. chopped onion... chopped spring onions.. flat leaf parsley.. garlic clove.. chives.. rice noodles .. soy sauce dash.. and milk or single cream (elmlea low fat :wink:) .. mmmm!


Take care. Be sensible and do not panic if you think you have the flu. Take normal precautions - and STAY OFF WORK .. shop on line .. rest.. and your body will fight with you and for you in seeing off this nasty "lurgy bug"

Love


Maril

Many many thanks for your professional advice Maril; that will put a few popular misconceptions to rest.

Mind you, like Andy, I too am curious about the "other health disorders" that killed the few people who have succumbed to this virus in Britain. I know that the docs are not free to talk about "other" complications but I am sure that if we knew what these complications were we would have our minds put at rest a bit about swine-flu.

Another thing about this strain that bothers me is the fact that in the main it is YOUNG people that are susceptible to this particular viral infection and not older people, as seems to be the norm with "ordinary" flu.

As I am getting on a bit and I am a type two diabetic I get the autumn flu jab every year but will I get the offer of Tamifu with the standard vaccination this year if the real vaccine is not ready ?

There is nothing worse than being kept in the dark about such matters and our government seem adept at keeping people "in the dark".

papa_umau wrote:Many many thanks for your professional advice Maril; that will put a few popular misconceptions to rest.

Mind you, like Andy, I too am curious about the "other health disorders" that killed the few people who have succumbed to this virus in Britain. I know that the docs are not free to talk about "other" complications but I am sure that if we knew what these complications were we would have our minds put at rest a bit about swine-flu.

The little girl had epilepsy - severe case. It seems she went into an episode. If you are weak with flu - which affects the respiratory system (as was the case with the asthmatic victim ... and the lady who had a premature birth with various complications ) .. then cause of death may not necesarily have been the flu - but the result of the other illness - but may have been made worse by the attacking lurgy.

Another thing about this strain that bothers me is the fact that in the main it is YOUNG people that are susceptible to this particular viral infection and not older people, as seems to be the norm with "ordinary" flu.

Young tend to mix more in schools/colleges/clubs/public transport at peak rush hour. They may not have the same tendency as the older generation to cough into hankies and wash hands as often,, as they take "immortality more for granted" (or simply do not have such quaing things such as "manners" :wink: Also viruses are also living beings and will be more virulent and perhaps more aggressive when under attack from the immune system within a young body. A virus will still fight to survive ...and it will be mutating as constant as a result..(which is why swine parties are not a good idea )

As I am getting on a bit and I am a type two diabetic I get the autumn flu jab every year but will I get the offer of Tamifu with the standard vaccination this year if the real vaccine is not ready ?

Yes .. you will be or should be given Tamiflu in the autumn as this sees off all known flu lurgies. You would only get the Tamiflu. :wink: Not two jabs.

There is nothing worse than being kept in the dark about such matters and our government seem adept at keeping people "in the dark".

"We all may think that .. but the government could not possibly comment!"

)quote from a fave re-run of a political thriller .

And yet Maril, I read today that the Scottish health service will have around fifty percent of the H1N1 vaccination available for the treatment of the general public. This is expected to be available before the winter sets in.

They did say that it would only be people "at risk", including health professionals like yourself and people who usually get the regular flu jab every winter that will get this one. There was no indication that the young folk - supposedly more at risk from this particular strain - that will get the vaccine.

I cannot speak for what is to happen in the rest of Britain.

It was in the paper yesterday ( official from the Minsistry of Health ) that swine flu parties are very bad things to do as even if the youngster that gets it this way is not going to be very ill there is no reason to suspect that by getting it they will be protected from the H1N1 version.

I just said that !

papa_umau wrote:And yet Maril, I read today that the Scottish health service will have around fifty percent of the H1N1 vaccination available for the treatment of the general public. This is expected to be available before the winter sets in.

They did say that it would only be people "at risk", including health professionals like yourself and people who usually get the regular flu jab every winter that will get this one. There was no indication that the young folk - supposedly more at risk from this particular strain - that will get the vaccine.

I cannot speak for what is to happen in the rest of Britain.

But today - they announced that they may vaccinate everyone in UK - starting with the most "at risk" and then extending. Folk die from any type of flu each year. This one is admittedly a virulent strain - but so long as people do not panic and take the aforementioned precautions - we can limit damage and even halt its spread.

What you do NOT do is have "swine flu parties" or infect GP and other surgeries. Call NHS direct and tamiflu etc will "wing its way to your front door"

That's the official NHS line by the way.. and I think common sense.


Cheers


Maril

Yes Maril, I read that one today too !

They say that they are going to produce enough vaccine to vaccinate every person in the UK with two - count them - TWO anti-H1N1 vaccines.

Boy oh boy but the drug companies that make these vaccines will be rubbing their grubby hands with delight !

Talking of vaccinations:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a910652305~db=all~jumptype=rss

Thimerosal in vaccinations shown to induce autism like brain damage.

Take your jab !

papa_umau wrote:Yes Maril, I read that one today too !

They say that they are going to produce enough vaccine to vaccinate every person in the UK with two - count them - TWO anti-H1N1 vaccines.

Boy oh boy but the drug companies that make these vaccines will be rubbing their grubby hands with delight !

\maybe .. but NHS has been known to cut a deal in the past with these sharks. \i admit they are sharks. I've waged enough wars in the past over required presciptions.


\but as said .. wash hands properly. \look \I may be teaching \granny to suck her thumb here..

\but //when washing hands .. wet them first. \then apply soap. - liquid soap. rub palms together. up to wrist.. \\rub the outide of each hand. Rub each finger. Rinse. Perform again. \Dry with paper towel and hit the pedal bin. by doing so you limit all infection. If you follow the basics per my advice to date. you may not even succumb to the flu ..or experience a mild attack. \at worst.

riders_on_the_storm wrote:Talking of vaccinations:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a910652305~db=all~jumptype=rss

Thimerosal in vaccinations shown to induce autism like brain damage.

Take your jab !

Yeah Andrew, I have mentioned this ingredient of vaccines a few times before on the old ROB. Seemingly Thimerosal is a preservative in such vaccines and I believe that it has now been outlawed as a preservative for precisely the reasons stated in your link.

Maybe Maril, ( F F ), can comment on this one too......

Frenzied Feline wrote:

papa_umau wrote:Yes Maril, I read that one today too !

They say that they are going to produce enough vaccine to vaccinate every person in the UK with two - count them - TWO anti-H1N1 vaccines.

Boy oh boy but the drug companies that make these vaccines will be rubbing their grubby hands with delight !

\maybe .. but NHS has been known to cut a deal in the past with these sharks. \i admit they are sharks. I've waged enough wars in the past over required presciptions.


\but as said .. wash hands properly. \look \I may be teaching \granny to suck her thumb here..

\but //when washing hands .. wet them first. \then apply soap. - liquid soap. rub palms together. up to wrist.. \\rub the outide of each hand. Rub each finger. Rinse. Perform again. \Dry with paper towel and hit the pedal bin. by doing so you limit all infection. If you follow the basics per my advice to date. you may not even succumb to the flu ..or experience a mild attack. \at worst.

I would HOPE that the NHS would "cut a deal" with these "sharks" as they have the buying power don't they ?

Having said that I am sure that the NHS will not get the new H1N1 vaccine for nothing and if it will take TWO jabs to give us full immunity it is bound to cost the NHS a bomb. ( I would not be surprised if you find that the financing of YOUR department is affected because of this massive cost ). We must remember that the government are in serious debt problems already and this will just be another burden for the taxpayers to carry.

Oh and BTW Maril... I just love how you rejig the old British sayings with your Swiss background ! It is very attractive that you get it wrong now and again ! The British version of the saying is: "Teach your grannie how to suck eggs", even if your version is very charming.

papa_umau wrote:

riders_on_the_storm wrote:Talking of vaccinations:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a910652305~db=all~jumptype=rss

Thimerosal in vaccinations shown to induce autism like brain damage.

Take your jab !

Yeah Andrew, I have mentioned this ingredient of vaccines a few times before on the old ROB. Seemingly Thimerosal is a preservative in such vaccines and I believe that it has now been outlawed as a preservative for precisely the reasons stated in your link.

Indeed. Another cousin of mine would be far more able to comment far better as she works for one such "shark of a company" I shall ask her what they are using these days - though she assured me that the amount of this substance was minimal - but also stressed that all medics should be advised of any medication currently being taken to avoid adverse reactions from a prescription cocktail. It's one of the first things I check with patient and their history notes.

Maybe Maril, ( F F ), can comment on this one too......

Frenzied Feline wrote:

papa_umau wrote:Yes Maril, I read that one today too !

They say that they are going to produce enough vaccine to vaccinate every person in the UK with two - count them - TWO anti-H1N1 vaccines.

Boy oh boy but the drug companies that make these vaccines will be rubbing their grubby hands with delight !

\maybe .. but NHS has been known to cut a deal in the past with these sharks. \i admit they are sharks. I've waged enough wars in the past over required presciptions.


\but as said .. wash hands properly. \look \I may be teaching \granny to suck her thumb here..

\but //when washing hands .. wet them first. \then apply soap. - liquid soap. rub palms together. up to wrist.. \\rub the outide of each hand. Rub each finger. Rinse. Perform again. \Dry with paper towel and hit the pedal bin. by doing so you limit all infection. If you follow the basics per my advice to date. you may not even succumb to the flu ..or experience a mild attack. \at worst.

I would HOPE that the NHS would "cut a deal" with these "sharks" as they have the buying power don't they ?

Having said that I am sure that the NHS will not get the new H1N1 vaccine for nothing and if it will take TWO jabs to give us full immunity it is bound to cost the NHS a bomb. ( I would not be surprised if you find that the financing of YOUR department is affected because of this massive cost ). We must remember that the government are in serious debt problems already and this will just be another burden for the taxpayers to carry.

The actual cost of many routine medicines is actually less than the prescription charge. Sometimes it's cheaper to ask the GP for a "private prescription" which means you buy at the "over counter cost price" if this drug is available without prescription but still judged as the best remedy.

Tamiflu would be effective against all types - including H1N1. The vaccine for this particualar strain may also protect against other similar flu viruses - but no vaccine can prevent infection. It can only help minimise the effect and help the body fight back against the disease. We also have another problem in that there are suspicions that this virus is already starting to mutate again - which means the current vaccine destined to give H1N1 "something up its backside to think about!" will have ot be modified to counter its progeny of emerging pathogens.


NHS will probably run into deficit yet again over all this with all the related costs. Best advice is not to be "stoic". If you have any symptom - stay at home. If your work is very important - how about using the internet and logging on to the office servr from home and doing the work via e-mail/phone and internet in much the same way as I understand already occurs when in the office.

Oh and BTW Maril... I just love how you rejig the old British sayings with your Swiss background ! It is very attractive that you get it wrong now and again ! The British version of the saying is: "Teach your grannie how to suck eggs", even if your version is very charming.

Thank you! Idioms are the worst to learn as there are so many of them and most mean something special to the natives. I nearly always get them wrong .. with some really funny and sometimes embarrassing results (I am not quite as bad as another relative who posts to a different forum though. Her posts can be priceless hilarity at times! )