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    Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Wed 02 Dec 2009, 8:17 am

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/bombshell-un-documents-outline-plan-to-use-climategate-crooks-in-end-run-around-national-sovereignty.html

    "Shocking newly uncovered UN strategy documents reveal how elitists are recruiting members of academia from all over the globe in an effort to hide the end-run around national sovereignty that their agenda represents, emphasizing how the climategate crooks who were recently caught manipulating scientific data in order to hide the decline in global warming are working with the United Nations in the pursuit of a world government justified by the global warming fraud that they are helping to perpetrate."

    One of the reports

    http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/113009_IISDreport.pdf

    So do people still think this is about the environment because it is clear leaders do not exercise the sort of activities they wish us to do every day, like walking, cycling etc? It is really a cover for a huge roll-out of global government, tax and control. This is not conspiracy theory any more it is conspiracy fact!

    Andrew
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 02 Dec 2009, 10:38 am

    I had to larf when I saw that these rabble-rousers are of the opinion that the United Nations are trying to somehow create a "world government".

    Never have I seen anything that looked more like a conspiracy theory !

    The miniscule numbers of individuals either tied to their financier polluters or to a simple anarchic response to settled science that scrabble to attempt to poo-poo these now-accepted climate change facts are now grasping at straws to try to save their manic resistance from the complete destruction of unbelievability.

    I admire how they stick to their guns but I do not admire that they are not open to listening to the facts that are now overwhelming to all that actually care about the environment and the possibility of our planet being damaged beyond repair by our greed for ever more energy taken from the dwindling fossil-fuel resources that hold the CO2 that is now being re-released that was locked up there so many eons ago.


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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Fri 04 Dec 2009, 4:40 pm

    So what is the UN then? It makes international laws and has more and more power, as does the EU, but nation states have less and less. Smells like formation of a world government to me paps?

    Andrew
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Fri 04 Dec 2009, 4:41 pm

    Hmm Australia's politicians seem to have more common-sense than the idiots over here:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091202/ap_on_re_as/climate_australia

    Well done to Australia for not falling for the lies.

    Andrew
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 05 Dec 2009, 12:58 pm

    riders_on_the_storm wrote:Hmm Australia's politicians seem to have more common-sense than the idiots over here:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091202/ap_on_re_as/climate_australia

    Well done to Australia for not falling for the lies.

    Andrew

    Politics, just politics !

    It is a dangerous thing to do to play politics with such an important subject and as I am sure that everywhere that companies and governments are going to have to spend money on doing the right thing to attempt to avoid this up-and-coming catastrophy, many of them will not be prepared to for this precise reason.

    The great mass of the people, ( countries and companies ), who do not want to control the output of greenhouse gasses - including carbon dioxide - are the ones that are making money out of it. It is this fact that has stopped the achievement of any amount of forward movement in the climate-change summits that have been going on for years. It is this point that will also probably kill off any real progress in Copenhagen too.

    Any person that fails to recognise this is the same person that is almost certainly deeply ensconsed in the denier camp.


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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Sat 05 Dec 2009, 5:34 pm

    The current politics of climate change todays paps is that climate change is man-made and we are definitely causing it - yes politics is just politics!

    I think you're under the illusion that this type of legislation (cap and trade) is going to cut CO2 emissions? What it will do is allow us to buy the right to emit the same amount, so it is just going to cost us more to emit - that's it?

    And in the meantime your buddy Gore will be getting super-stinking rich from actually - deliberately - keeping third-world countries in poverty because they will be giving us the right to "emit" that dreaded gas.

    Tell me this if Gore is so-concerned about AGW what is he doing living in a huge mansion with a leccy bill about *20 of the average American, driving about in a 4*4 entorage signing books and attending conferences in his private jet, oh and almost forgot buying sea-front hideaways. If he believed his lies he wouldn't be buying on the sea-front would he?

    Andrew
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 06 Dec 2009, 12:34 pm

    Nowhere have I said that the trading of carbon licences is right but is IS one way to try to get the cash-and-growth-conscious countries to play the game.

    By doing this, if they will not spend the money on their own anthropgenic output they might get that money from the richer and larger and more developed countries that are the greatest polluters at the moment. If this is not done we are going to see many fast-growing countries - that do not care about their pollution output - soon get to the levels of emission output that we are at at the moment.

    This snowball-effect HAS TO BE STOPPED if the likes of China and India and many of the South American countries are to be made aware that they cannot do what we are doing at the moment.

    Copenhagen is there to try to make these admitted desires and essential needs work at a global level and if it fails the polluters will just keep polluting until they find that the levels of emission outputs that they have arrived at are no longer fixable on a global scale.

    This is a DESPERATE situation and that is why the environmentalists of all of the major cities in the world are marching to try to steer the Copenhagen summit towards some practical outcome this time.


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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Wed 09 Dec 2009, 6:46 pm

    Right right right - so this is about keeping poor countries poor? That's what this is all about isn't it. Exactly what has been happening to Africa for years, we have engineered the destruction and withheld the advancement of this nation out of the quagmire because we are scared they might develop and not need us anymore.

    I do not like seeing this and it is not right that we should be steering the course of other countries trying to lift themselves out of poverty - it should be up to them entirely.

    They can use our technologies to keep their industries safe and clean, use the technology that we have honed to improve our environment, without stifling their development.
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 10 Dec 2009, 11:44 am

    I see your point Andrew, but I do not believe that this is just an attempt at stopping growth in the developing countries. I believe that it is an attempt at ensuring that these developing countries do NOT go down the dirty path that we have already went down in our desire for ever more growth and the generation of ever more energy to waste.

    The ideal situation here would be for the wealth of the developed world to somehow allow the third world to go down the renewables path rather than firstly going down the fossil-fuels path and then having to convert to the renewables later on - as we are having to eventually do.

    If these countries are allowed to grow exponentially - as they threaten to do - in the cheapest and dirtiest way then very soon it is THEY that are going to be the ones that are contributing most to this potential climate change disaster.

    The people meeting in Copenhagen have the chance to stop this or at least ameliorate the worst of the excesses that these counties are going to take part in as they rush headlong towards oblivion and take us with them while they do it.


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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by zathrus on Fri 11 Dec 2009, 11:43 am

    Well said Paps. That is exactly what is going on at the moment.

    China and India in particular continue to grow apace and they don't give a damn that their fast-sprouting factories and power-stations are being built and operated in the cheapest and filthiest ways possible.

    As we start to get educated about the ways to minimise emissions and are shamed into doing what is right these countries are just forging ahead without giving any thought to the muck that goes up into the sky from their chimneys.

    It is only the likes of Copenhagen that can do this job as there the other powerful world leaders use their clout to make these big polluters toe the line.

    Carbon trading is one short term way to do this but it is by no way the complete or final answer to the problem.
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Sun 13 Dec 2009, 11:57 am

    "The ideal situation here would be for the wealth of the developed world to somehow allow the third world to go down the renewables path rather than firstly going down the fossil-fuels path and then having to convert to the renewables later on - as we are having to eventually do."

    So how can we expect the third-world to develop using expensive renewables when we haven't even got it right? It's already proving expensive for us so does that mean we pour all our money (more debt to be honest) into making sure the third-world have renewables but we don't?

    The reality is there is no quick or easy solution here and if the third-world is to develop and be responsible for its own path in life then we can help and assist them to make sure their energy production is clean and safe but not at the expense and detriment of our own environment and supplies.

    Its quite selfish and wishy-washy to bully and dictate to other countries how to do what we ourselves cannot achieve.

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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 13 Dec 2009, 1:02 pm

    No Andrew, the "reality" and the NECESSITY is that the fast-growing nations that do not either give a damn or cannot afford to give a damn are the ones that are going to have to make the renewables step first, or as early as possible.

    It is much easier and cheaper to go down the renewables line first before going down the fossil-fuels line and then having to convert - as we are having to do - and if we use our wealth to help to ensure that that happens in the third world we will have staved off one heluva lot of pollution that is just waiting to happen on top of what WE - in the fully developed world - are already inserting into the environment at the moment.

    Before you can understand what is going on here you have to be aware of where and why the today's pollution and the tomorrow's pollution is going to come from and once you know about and recognise this you then have to hope that meetings like the one in Copenhagen are going to address this present and future problem.

    Before you can even start to think of ways to sort out this problem you have to first of all agree that the problem DOES exist in the first place.

    "The deniers" - with their heads in the sand - are not in any position to even start to help to solve this very real problem because they stubbornly don't admit that it even exists.


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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Sun 13 Dec 2009, 1:19 pm

    "It is much easier and cheaper to go down the renewables line first before going down the fossil-fuels line"

    You have got to be kidding? Why then are developing nations like China using coal and gas stations because it's cheaper, or they get much more power for the same investment as they would over renewables.

    "No Andrew, the "reality" and the NECESSITY is that the fast-growing nations that do not either give a damn or cannot afford to give a damn are the ones that are going to have to make the renewables step first, or as early as possible.
    "

    I say again how can the third-world even hope to achieve this if we haven't even achieved it yet? The logic is awry here.

    "Before you can even start to think of ways to sort out this problem you have to first of all agree that the problem DOES exist in the first place."

    If you are talking about pollution then I agree and we should be giving developing nations the benefit of our technology to allow them to develop without huge smokestacks pumping smoky fumes into the atmosphere.
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    Re: Climate Change -Trojan Horse for World Government

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 14 Dec 2009, 11:21 am

    riders_on_the_storm wrote:"It is much easier and cheaper to go down the renewables line first before going down the fossil-fuels line"

    You have got to be kidding? Why then are developing nations like China using coal and gas stations because it's cheaper, or they get much more power for the same investment as they would over renewables.

    "No Andrew, the "reality" and the NECESSITY is that the fast-growing nations that do not either give a damn or cannot afford to give a damn are the ones that are going to have to make the renewables step first, or as early as possible.
    "

    I say again how can the third-world even hope to achieve this if we haven't even achieved it yet? The logic is awry here.

    "Before you can even start to think of ways to sort out this problem you have to first of all agree that the problem DOES exist in the first place."

    If you are talking about pollution then I agree and we should be giving developing nations the benefit of our technology to allow them to develop without huge smokestacks pumping smoky fumes into the atmosphere.

    Your'e still just not thinking along the right lines Andrew.

    Let me take one point at a time again shall I ?

    It IS cheaper to go down the renewables line first BEFORE they go down the fossil-fuels line and then have to convert to the renewables - as we are having to do.

    If we can help them to go direct to the renewables instead of building any more filthy power-stations and factories using old technology then we will have staved off many of the problems that will arise later on when all of their fast growth is fed by this dirty technology. ( This one should be easy to see ! ).

    Using the above argument THIS is how and why we have to help them with the hi-tech and clean ways of generating power. They cannot do it on their own because they firstly don't have the technology and secondly they cannot afford to do this. We can make it affordable for them AND we can help them to go straight to the renewables options in any of their newbuilds.

    Yes, I agree that we have not yet applied this option as well as we could but that is no reason for not trying hard to do it, as eventually we are going to be forced to do it anyway.

    NOW....your last definition of "pollution".......

    I have already given you a list of chemicals and gasses that are considered to be pollutants and just seeing sooty particulates on their own as the only pollutants is nonsensical when there are dozens of chemicals and gasses including CO2, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide and sulfur-dioxide etc' etc' that are poured into the world's land, sea and atmosphere from dirty generators and factories and road, rail, sea and air vehicles.

    If you want the full list go HERE

    HERE you will find the greenhouse gasses that are doing the greatest amount of damage to the world's atmospheric heat-control.



    NB.....

    There are a few missing from that list that are not considered as "toxic" which are STILL recognised as anthropogenic greenhouse gasses, including carbon dioxide and methane and nitrous oxide and the CFCs and HCFCs, ( that are used in refrigerators and as propellants in pressurised cans ), that have already been banned in some enlightened countries.


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