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    The floods all around the world.

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    Angie baby
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    The floods all around the world.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 12:00 pm

    We are now seeing many lowlying areas being flooded on a routine basis and with rainfall now measuring in hundreds of centimeters we see things like the floods in Cumbria and the South West.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/6616406/Cumbria-floods-residents-braced-for-more-rain-over-weekend.html

    I am wondering if this is the start of the fulfilment of the predictions that we have been getting for a few years now. If it is we can start to worry about all of the lowlying areas of Britain if this climate change is not stopped. One of the areas that I am particularly concerned about is the Norfolk Broads as I have relatives that live down there who are all sitting in very low-lying and flat countryside.

    Why don't you all have a look at this link and pop your postcode into the Environment Agency flood-map search box so that you will see if your area is at risk.

    Here it is: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/floods/default.aspx

    Find a flood-risk map of England and Wales at this site:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7086224.stm
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 22 Nov 2009, 11:31 am

    The deniers will keep their heads buried in the sand until the time that they too are flooded out. By that time it might be too late to do anything.


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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Tue 24 Nov 2009, 6:58 pm

    Well I would agree but since we have not had any real warming for 15 years now, in fact some cooling, I wonder how this event can be tied to global warming??

    If you cared to look at the facts the storm stalled over this area and I fail to see how it could be global warming causing that either?

    Top climate scientists do say that more extreme weather events are found in cooler periods in history rather than warmer periods so it might be cooling, not warming that is more responsible.

    There is a lot of floods and extremely heavy rainfall all over the world but it is not atmospheric warming it is cooling of the atmosphere, and warming (or stored heat) of the oceans causing the extra rainfall.

    The oceans are being heated by increasing underwater volcanic activity (heating starts 2 miles down, how can this be us?), this then vaporises more water in to the atmosphere, cools it and more rain falls.

    Here's some interesting stories to consider:

    http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm

    I would really love to believe the CO2 story but not now, especially after this climategate leak of files showing manipulation, lies and deceit by supposed top climate scientists hiding the inconvenient facts. And before anyone goes off on one that they are fabricated they are not as a University of East Anglia spokesperson has confirmed they are all genuine and unaltered (something the warmists could learn from).

    Full list of emails here:

    http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=1052&filename=1255523796.txt

    One quote from it:

    Kevin Trenberth wrote:

    Hi all

    Well I have my own article on where the heck is global warming? We are asking that here
    in Boulder where we have broken records the past two days for the coldest days on
    record. We had 4 inches of snow. The high the last 2 days was below 30F and the normal
    is 69F, and it smashed the previous records for these days by 10F. The low was about
    18F and also a record low, well below the previous record low. This is January weather
    (see the Rockies baseball playoff game was canceled on saturday and then played last
    night in below freezing weather).

    Trenberth, K. E., 2009: An imperative for climate change planning: tracking Earth's
    global energy. /Current Opinion in Environmental Sustainability/, *1*, 19-27,
    doi:10.1016/j.cosust.2009.06.001. [PDF]
    <[1]http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/Trenberth/trenberth.papers/EnergyDiagnostics09final.pdf>
    (A PDF of the published version can be obtained from the author.)

    The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a
    travesty that we can't. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on
    2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our
    observing system is inadequate.

    That said there is a LOT of nonsense about the PDO. People like CPC are tracking PDO on
    a monthly basis but it is highly correlated with ENSO. Most of what they are seeing is
    the change in ENSO not real PDO. It surely isn't decadal. The PDO is already reversing
    with the switch to El Nino. The PDO index became positive in September for first time
    since Sept 2007. see
    [2]http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/GODAS/ocean_briefing_gif/global_ocean_monitorin
    g_current.ppt

    Kevin


    Video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydo2Mwnwpac
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 25 Nov 2009, 11:07 am

    Yes Andrew you can find the "anti" argument if you look for it but if, just for once , you looked at this from an open-minded point of view and not simply looking to support your VERY minority argument you would see the tons of information that is accepted by almost all climatologists and environmentalists right around the world that climate change is real.

    Actually I sometimes wonder just how much evidence the deniers are going to need before they change their minds. Maybe they will change their minds when the water is lapping around THEIR heels.

    Stop trying to wriggle out of ther climate change argument and get the facts straight from the horse's mouth while you still can.

    Look at the information from the Met Office HERE


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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Wed 25 Nov 2009, 7:15 pm

    I have had the water lapping round my feet - in 1991 when the Clyde decided to enter the lower part of the Towns, a high tide combined with heavy rain - something that hasn't happened since.

    Hmm yes the Met Office are by extension a part of the Hadley centre who get their data from the University of East Anglia Climate Centre, and they are the official weather spokes-agency for the Government - how more unbiased can you get?

    Paps I do have an open mind now and I accepted the climate change argument for a very long time - but that was when I had a more closed mind and just accepted what I was told without challenging it. This change came about partly through my engineering/science/computing degree, where I was taught to perform experiments, read the data and report the findings with peer review and questioning of my logic too, not screw the data and report my own findings!

    I do accept that CO2 might play a very very small part in the climate but it is so small that it is insignificant, however you have totally ignored every other bit of evidence to the contrary in favour of a blind emotive argument that somehow the human race is causing dangerous global warming.

    Somehow this argument is devoid of a balanced, calm debate with each side presenting their case in favour of one-sided arguments, with charges of heretic and denier to anyone who dares question the failed logic of the computer models. It's more like a religion than a scientific debate.

    Andrew
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 26 Nov 2009, 11:30 am

    OK Andrew, as it seems that the people for and the people against the idea of serious climate change will always get bogged down by details rather than looking at the big picture here is a small science lesson that should make you sit up and pay attention if you REALLY want to.

    Just a few FACTS.....

    Since the dawn of time on this earth the growth of life was seriously curtailed because of the extremely high levels of carbon dioxide at the beginning. For some reason the runaway greenhouse effect that happened on Mars did not happen here and once the masses of CO2 were metabolised by nature at that time the "boil-away" of surface water which occurred on Mars stopped on earth and life was allowed to form, striking a balance of the production of oxygen and carbon dioxide. This fine balance has been maintained ever since life first crawled out of the primordial soup.

    All went well until the humans started to increase the production of their domesticated animals at which point the levels of CO2 and other greenhouse gasses like methane started to rise at a higher rate than nature could deal with. Once we reached the years of the industrial revolution we REALLY started to inject our anthropogenic filth into the land, sea and air and the production of greenhouse gasses - especially CO2 - started to get way out of control of nature's neutralising capabilities.

    Now that almost all of the countries of the world are capable of industrial revolution levels of output of these pollutants and because they are growing at an exponential rate this unnatural injection of greenhouse gasses and other pollutants is at a runaway rate. Because these fast-growing countries, especially India and China and energy-intensive states like the Americas and Europe can not agree on the reduction of the output of these pollutants they are just going to go on doing it. People like you - who support the deniers stance - are encouraging them to keep on polluting because they know that you will not stand against them.

    We - who have a concience - all MUST stand against them or eventually the damage will be so severe that we will not be able to stop it from permanently ruining the environment that our children and our children's children will inherit from us.

    Here are the absolute basics about the greehouse effect that even the most hard-line deniers must see, admit to and recognise:

    http://www.eoearth.org/article/Greenhouse_gas?gclid=CPKx--LCqJ4CFUOX2AodIkSZmQ


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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Thu 26 Nov 2009, 6:04 pm

    Holy moly paps even the WARMISTS now admit that the science is not settled:

    "Another prominent global warming alarmist, Tim Flannery, now admits that there are holes in the “science is settled” mantra."

    "The Guardian’s George Monbiot, a climate change zealot and a staunch defender of the faith, concedes that the science now needs “reanalyising” and that CRU Director Phil Jones should resign."

    So you don't agree with them?

    Lets face it this is the beginning of the end for the global warming lies. I look forward to a world where real environmental concerns flourish (like stopping GM food, stopping the continuing pollution of our environment by big corps (while the gleefully proclaim to be reducing "emissions"), cementing over the countryside to build even more houses etc), and third-world countries are not restricted by environmentalists from developing and improving their lot.

    Andrew
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The floods all around the world.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 27 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm

    There is no doubt that a few of the previously supportive scientists have been bought off by the bottomless pockets of the polluters but the great mass of the evidence that supports climate change STILL blows away the doubters and the ones that allow themselves to get bogged down by the detail that misses the big picture.

    It is an old and well worked trick to try to blind everyone with science details and so long as they keep us not being able to see the wood for the trees there WILL be an argument ongoing about this EXTREMELY complex subject.

    I often wonder what the environment would have been like if we and our domesticated animals had never appeared on this earth.

    Imagine what it would be like if six+ billion people had not appeared on this earth, digging up and sucking up and burning the fossil fuels that nature used to lock up the CO2 that nearly caused a Mars-like catastrophy in the earliest years of the growth of this planet. Now that this lock-box is open and this mass of carbon dioxide - along with all of the other greenhouse gasses of course - are being released once again into our environment I and many millions more people who care about our future on this planet know that in time there will be a chance of this risk returning once again to wipe us all out.

    The fact that a few axe-grinding and head-burying fools will not see that the game is up just exacerbates the view that we are more interested in risking our environment via our excessive need for wasteful and polluting energy-production than we are at really looking at what we are doing while we do it, just proves that we are more interested in making money and generating unsustainable growth than we are caring about the future of the planet and all who may need to live here for maybe a few thousand years more.

    It is true that in the 4.55 billion year time-line that the earth has been here since it formed after the big bang, the time period that we have been here shows as less than a dot on that line. During the formation of that dot we have progressed from beasts that swung around in the trees via the development of homo-sapiens to be the builders and destroyers that we are today.

    We have spread around the face of this planet and we have felt a need to keep on growing at a pace that is simply unsustainable within nature so that if we continue to grow at the rate that we have achieved today we will only succeed in using up the earth's resources so that eventually life as we know it here will no longer be able to exist.

    THIS...is the "big picture" and if it is looked at it is easy to see that the "dot" that we show on the time-line of this planet will never ever manage to become even the smallest of lines as we stumble headlong towards our own oblivion.


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