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    Kids and their oral hygene.

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    Angie baby
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    Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 29 Aug 2009, 1:08 pm

    As a primary teacher I am finding that the oral health of my kids is getting worse rather than better in this modern age. As I go around the class I can tell which of the kids do not brush their teeth or give a damn about the smell on their breath and if I mention it I risk encouraging the others in the class to pick on them.

    In this day and age when electric toothbrushes are everywhere and where there are dozens of different kinds of toothpastes and mouthwashes being advertised on the telly I cannot understand why some children just don't seem to realise how important their second set of teeth actually are.

    Ok I do realise that there are a lot fewer NHS dentists out there and that many people cannot even get registered with one anywhere near where they stay, but I cannot understand why parents don't take more interest in the oral welfare of their children.

    Any ideas ?
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 30 Aug 2009, 11:55 am

    Of course you could always take the child aside and tell them about their breath, as I am sure nobody wants to be accused of having bad breath.

    I do agree that because of the bother that dentists have been having with NHS rules and payments many of them are now pulling out of the NHS and going private. This is OK if the patient can afford to pay for dental insurance on top of ordinary national insurance but many poorer familes can not and this means that many of these familes - especially children - are just not getting the dental care that they should.

    Of course that is no excuse for not observing standard dental hygene and watching what sugary and acidic food and drink that the child might like against best practice.

    I suspect that a lot of parents just don't know which foods and drinks damage chidrens' teeth and which ones don't. Maybe there should be better public information on this subject !


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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Frenzied Feline on Sun 30 Aug 2009, 6:51 pm

    Why not do a class project on healthy foods - crunchy apples and carrots and stuff - and looking after one's health - which discreetly tackles teeth without singling out any one pupil.

    Or a little game about the "tooth fairy fighting the decaying devil. Kids like pregmamt ladies and those on benefit are supposed to get help with dentistry -even private ones. I filled in a form when expecting our kids. T also filled in a form and whilst I have to pay the dentist (and claim back from my dental insurance ) - our kids do get free check ups.

    Think you can find something funny on the internet to present it a quirky fashion which they can get their teeth into geek
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 31 Aug 2009, 11:31 am

    Lots of lovely ideas their Maril !

    Mind you, today's primary school teachers might not have the time to be so creative. I know that they often struggle just to keep up with the national curriculum and the constant targeting that kids are put under by government bean-counters.

    While this IS part of a good balance in education I think that the parents should take most of the blame for this situation.


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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Frenzied Feline on Tue 01 Sep 2009, 8:02 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Lots of lovely ideas their Maril !

    Mind you, today's primary school teachers might not have the time to be so creative. I know that they often struggle just to keep up with the national curriculum and the constant targeting that kids are put under by government bean-counters.


    I have to say I think the National Curriculum gags creativity. Kids need to be kids and teachers can nurture their natural sponge like brains by being able to "let rip with creative "teaching and learning" enthusiasm"


    What I suggested overlaps with Literacy and Maths and Science and IT too .. and thus meets the criteria as laid down by politicians anyway.


    While this IS part of a good balance in education I think that the parents should take most of the blame for this situation.

    Yes I agree with this too. Teachers only see kids in term time for . about what . 30 hours or so per week of hard worked contact time? in term time. Rest of time .. PARENTS and parents should be educating better. I see little excuse for keeping kids in nappies till age 5.. These kids should be confident and well trained in toilet habits. table manners .. and general hygiene. But the reality . plenty are not and a teacher has to try to reslove this without making that child feel insecure and open to bullying.
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 02 Sep 2009, 11:09 am

    So I guess that we agree on this one then ? Shocked

    Wonder what Angie will say when she comes back at the weekend ?


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    Angie baby
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 05 Sep 2009, 1:03 pm

    Hi Maril, thanks for the good ideas. Actually, we already do do those things but it seems to be a thankless task when the kids keep turning up for school without even brushing their teeth.

    Of course, all children get free dental care from the NHS but it is a different thing when there are no NHS dentists in the area. Yes, some of the private dentists will give free checkups for children but if they need orthodontal work they do not do this for free in non-NHS surgeries.

    Maybe you live in a different strata of society with your well-paid consultancy work. The rest of us "down here" might not have the choices that you have ?
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Frenzied Feline on Sat 05 Sep 2009, 6:13 pm

    Angie baby wrote:Hi Maril, thanks for the good ideas. Actually, we already do do those things but it seems to be a thankless task when the kids keep turning up for school without even brushing their teeth.

    Of course, all children get free dental care from the NHS but it is a different thing when there are no NHS dentists in the area. Yes, some of the private dentists will give free checkups for children but if they need orthodontal work they do not do this for free in non-NHS surgeries.

    Maybe you live in a different strata of society with your well-paid consultancy work. The rest of us "down here" might not have the choices that you have ?


    HI Angie..


    I could suggest you cheat or bend the system a little more forcefully . Emergency dental work can be organised via A&E if you play up the "raging toothache". Also try the university dental hospitals. Usually this is free of charge on the basis that the students practise on the public .,. under supervision of course.

    I agree that there's no excuse for dentists to cop out of the NHS in favour of lucrative fees.

    So far my kids have not needed fillings nor braces etc. I thank my blessings on that one. Might be because I've been a bit strict over toffee/caramel/sucky boiled sweets and fizzy sweet drinks which the kids keep in mouths for longer and thus these substances attack their teeth. We found that kids like to swish sugary drinks like fizzy pop in their mouths before swallowing. This really hits teeth hard. I know one woman who ended up spending a small fortune on cavity fillings because she liked hot Ribena before bedtime but did not clean teeth properly afterwards. Rolling Eyes I wonder how many adults do this .. that's not just something kids alone do... swish sweet drinks around to savour the taste .. but unaware of the damage done to teeth by doing so??? confused

    I am surprised you have no NHS dentists North of Carlisle?

    That's scandalous. I am not even sure who you can complain to or lobby other than local MP and the governing body for dentists in Scotland. I think like Scottish trained doctors/teachers/lawyers/chartered accountants .. scottish trained dentists can work in England and Wales but those trained south of the border have to take a course to allow them to work because of slight differences in procedures and law? Unless you happen to be East European in which case you qualify because the Scottish system established under the Stewarts has more likeness with European Roman law than English law which rather evolved according to need? I amy be wrong on this. It's just that as a foreigner - who trained abroad (Switzerland and one year in USA med school) .. I was not exempt from one or two modules in my path up the ladder.

    I guess I am lucky in that this little pocket of North Wales has an NHS dentist who looks after this family's "gobs" for them. :bow: cheers

    I am not sure how to advise you about your problem in that these kids do not bother to brush their teeth before arriving at school. I did ask my sister who is a teacher .. head of a secondary school in Merseyside. She says she once opened all the windows..over a matter of Body Odour and then discussed showers/baths/ and turned the lesson (shopping in France module) into "shopping at the Apotheke/apotheque (drug store like Superdrug) for bathroom "requisites" in what she called a "Python sketch moment" Laughing

    When I asked her how she would deal with non brushing of teeth and trying to encourage these kids? She replied that it's a tricky one . with no easy or even soft options. She has advised me to reply to you here to try to help ..

    .. that years ago as a tutor with 11 year olds ... in a run down area .. single parents. scant employment prospects... but genuinely nice .. but a bit "rough" , she encountered this. She did a general spiel on hygiene each week. She even supplied toothpaste and brushes at one point. SHe says that sometimes you just have to be blunt with parents though/

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    papa_umau
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 06 Sep 2009, 12:04 pm

    Yo Maril...It might seem incredulous to you in your position that there are chronic shortages of NHS dentists in certain areas of Britain, BUT, it IS the case.

    Read THIS news item and you might see just how desperate this situation has now become.

    You suggest that maybe parents that cannot get access to an NHS dentist should take their kids to A & E for the treatment that they might need, but I doubt if your under-pressure NHS A & E buddies would agree with that one. ( Not to mention the four hour wait for such emergency treament in most casualty departments ).

    Also, while it might be possible to take kids to a dental teaching hospital to get free treatment, in all practicality this is not really an option for many that are well away from such few dental teaching hospitals and who are already struggling to get about anywhere.

    Sorry for shooting down your obviously well-meant ideas but many of us actually live in the real world where such options are just not available.


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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Frenzied Feline on Mon 07 Sep 2009, 8:14 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Yo Maril...It might seem incredulous to you in your position that there are chronic shortages of NHS dentists in certain areas of Britain, BUT, it IS the case.

    Read THIS news item and you might see just how desperate this situation has now become.

    You suggest that maybe parents that cannot get access to an NHS dentist should take their kids to A & E for the treatment that they might need, but I doubt if your under-pressure NHS A & E buddies would agree with that one. ( Not to mention the four hour wait for such emergency treament in most casualty departments ).

    True .. but you have to know when to attend. Wink DO not go at weekend . but have your chronic "agonising" at 6.30 - 7 am on a weekday . etc. In other words - choose the lull times to have your "toothache from hell". You have to "play the system.. ho hum!" Rolling Eyes Dependent on your acting skills ... you should not wait for long if you have your toothache in the "mid week early morning lull time" It's a bit of a myth that Charlie Fairhead et al on the telly are so "run off their feet 24/7" even in the cities. I have served my time in an inner city A&E in the UK.. I was at a Liverpool Hospital's A&E for a short while when I first arrived in this country during what I call my "probationary years on that general learning curve".

    But you have to play the system at times .. to get what you want and deserve. I agree that no one should feel they have to resort to this as a last resort...but sometimes you have to get "your hands dirty" as the late French philospher Jeamn Paul Sartre would say.. Rolling Eyes


    I am a real rebel. Smile I get into right bother with NHS management at times. To play on my nickname .. if I might? I think "drawn claws and fits of frenzied furballs" could aptly describe the "battles" we have Laughing Some I win. Some I lose.... and keep on chipping away al the same. Wink - usually over budgets and what I can and cannot prescribe...

    Put more simply - I fight for my patients and their rights to have what they need. I will say that the most expensive medicine in the world may not be the one they require.. but I want to be able to prescribe the right drug for each individual patient and it may be that "wonderpill whatever" may be the one we need in the odd case... but realistically . tried tessted and true works. We have even found that a 1940s drug to treat one condition works spectacularly well when combined with a compatabible modern and moderately priced catalyst medicine. Smile Just because we do not prescribe the latest medicine at x thousand pounds per patient does not mean the patient is "doomed". Quite the contrary It's drifting off topic //. SORRY .. but I think I should make this commment .. but agree/concur it should be perhaps a separate debate????

    I am drifting way . WAY . WAY off topic. Sorry.


    I am just typing what occurs to me here...



    Also, while it might be possible to take kids to a dental teaching hospital to get free treatment, in all practicality this is not really an option for many that are well away from such few dental teaching hospitals and who are already struggling to get about anywhere.


    I forget that areas of the Highlands are much further from big towns than rural Wales of Snowdonia area. Sorry. We have Univerity of Wales dotted around from border with Chester southwards. This principality is a lot smaller than Scotland.. a larger kingdom.
    ===============================================
    OFF TOPIC ASIDE MOMENT - FEEL FREE TO IGNORE!

    I am aware you are not a fan of Royalty but wonder who would be the rightful King or Queen of Scotland from a very turbulent history al the same. confused Unlike Wales .. Scotland was never conquered and given James I took over from Good Queen Bess .. I would say the real seat of rule and throne is in your land .. as we Swiss are another division of the Celtic tribe Laughing

    OFF TOPIC ASIDE MODE OFF!
    ====================================================


    OK the above is an aside personal comment and takes the debate off topic yet again. SORRY! As I was saying ... we have teaching hopsitals across a much smalller area. I guess this helps us more than you Scots?


    So get assertive on this one.

    You need. You already have free prescriptions. Get your ruling party to deliver NHS dentistry. I admit that dentists.. enter the profession because they see "easy money". Medics .. hospital based ones do not. I cannot comment about GPs .. other than a handful are superb and the rest have much to learn. Rolling Eyes



    [qoote]
    Sorry for shooting down your obviously well-meant ideas but many of us actually live in the real world where such options are just not available.[/quote]

    I am the quintessential optimist and fighter for an optimtist's rights Wink As said . I win some. lose some but never yield to bureaucratic fools. I end up getting what I want Very Happy in the end ..
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 08 Sep 2009, 11:46 am

    Maril said....

    OFF TOPIC ASIDE MOMENT - FEEL FREE TO IGNORE!

    I am aware you are not a fan of Royalty but wonder who would be the rightful King or Queen of Scotland from a very turbulent history al the same. Unlike Wales .. Scotland was never conquered and given James I took over from Good Queen Bess .. I would say the real seat of rule and throne is in your land .. as we Swiss are another division of the Celtic tribe

    OFF TOPIC ASIDE MODE OFF!

    THAT one would be an excellent subject for the "Off-topic" sub-forum on it's own !

    As far as the rest goes I wish all doctors and consultants were like you as I fear that most of them are totaly immersed in the establishment/commercial way of doing things.

    Without "rebels" like you and me the establishment would roll right over the top of all of us and the ones that are weak would get even weaker and be abused even more. In fact that is my raison-d'tre, ( sp? ) for being here.

    Your thoughtful and always slightly "frenzied" input to ROB2 is valued more than you might imagine it is.

    I for one just LOVE reading your rants every time that you come here.

    Keep it up as it is all pure gold !


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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Frenzied Feline on Tue 08 Sep 2009, 8:12 pm

    papa_umau wrote:
    Maril said....

    OFF TOPIC ASIDE MOMENT - FEEL FREE TO IGNORE!

    I am aware you are not a fan of Royalty but wonder who would be the rightful King or Queen of Scotland from a very turbulent history al the same. Unlike Wales .. Scotland was never conquered and given James I took over from Good Queen Bess .. I would say the real seat of rule and throne is in your land .. as we Swiss are another division of the Celtic tribe

    OFF TOPIC ASIDE MODE OFF!

    THAT one would be an excellent subject for the "Off-topic" sub-forum on it's own !


    I know.. I cannot help but wonder. I would have thought England would be subject to Scottish law under the Stewarts but I guess he inherited an "very peculiar English mess and a right odd lot of mixed up Angles/formrmer Vikings/Saxons/Roman and them French from Normandy ... England was INVADED and CONQUERED in 1066.


    I am being facetious here. Sorry. I think the Bayeux tapestry is just wonderful. Satirical .. dark and what we'd call "alternative comedy" expressed. I loved the tapestry's laughing horses on the boat to Hastings. I think those who made that tapestry had a great sense of humour and they would be "at home in today's society too"


    As far as the rest goes I wish all doctors and consultants were like you as I fear that most of them are totaly immersed in the establishment/commercial way of doing things.

    Ahhh.. but I am a rebel. A known one. I say what I think .. I argue like crazy for my patients and fight budget like the "partisan/dissident" and I win some battles .. I lose some battles..and when I lose.. I pick myself up.. dust down and refuse to take NO for an answer if it will benefit my patients.

    "
    Without "rebels" like you and me the establishment would roll right over the top of all of us and the ones that are weak would get even weaker and be abused even more. In fact that is my raison-d'tre, ( sp? ) for being here.

    Your thoughtful and always slightly "frenzied" input to ROB2 is valued more than you might imagine it is.

    I for one just LOVE reading your rants every time that you come here.

    Keep it up as it is all pure gold !

    Hey .. THANK YOU for this comment. I feel overwhelmed in emotion at such a lovely comment now. I find it cathartic to rant at times. I rant on the "for medics only" boards too. There are rather a lot of us mad medical rebels out there really Laughing
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 09 Sep 2009, 10:10 am

    The trouble is Maril, that the ones that stand out and speak out are usually slammed down by the establishment and their words seldom reach the ears of those that matter.

    That can not be said about ROB2 as if you are fair in your comment - as you always are - you will NEVER be silenced here and you don't know who is paying attention to your words on this forum that is open to the world to read.


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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 12 Sep 2009, 1:17 pm

    Thanks very much for your interest and practical comments on this subject Maril. I can tell you that I will take many of the tips in your posts to heart.

    I only wished that more health professionals like you would take this kind of stance.
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    Re: Kids and their oral hygene.

    Post by Frenzied Feline on Sat 12 Sep 2009, 8:41 pm

    Angie baby wrote:Thanks very much for your interest and practical comments on this subject Maril. I can tell you that I will take many of the tips in your posts to heart.

    I only wished that more health professionals like you would take this kind of stance.

    Angie . I hope to help. I take your comments to heart too and have referred to GMC and medical/dentistry ethical bods . so that they are aware of public concerns. I will keep you informed on this too.

    I admit that I am seriously concerned over dental colleagues ..as with GPs who fail to deliver. I do not ever defend the failings of my profession. It would be foolish of me to do so when I know only too well the shortomings.

    I fight for my patients.. their rights and my own rights in life. I vote for a politician who persuades me he or she will do right for constituency/country as a whole and who comes across as "honest as he or she can be - given he or she may need to get hands dirty as means to end" as Sartre once remarked via his "career politician" in one of his plays. Wink

    Me? I guess I am a "natural born rebel" Very Happy So far .. I've ridden rough shod over managers over the odd treatment.. bent the rules..if I can prove the "over budget spend " will show break even dividend of the productive life in the balance.

    I know just what you face here all the same. I can only encourage you to do what you can to help and fight the system by constant heckling.

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