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    Is THIS the car of the future ?

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    papa_umau
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    Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 11 Jun 2009, 1:17 pm

    THE TESLA ROADSTER


    Not so long ago the idea of running a car on pure electricity would have been poo-pooed by the people that compare any electric vehicle to a milk-float....BUT...we have moved on from this old idea and now cars - using very hi-tech batteries - are much faster, have much greater range and look much better than they used to in those days.

    Click on the link above, take a look at the future of motoring and ask yourself.....Is this the end of the internal combustion engine and all of that poison that they spew out onto our streets and into the air we breath ?

    As I have already said many times...I also hope that one day very soon we will also make our own electricity by using fuel-cells to run such electric cars.

    What do you folks think of the idea ?


    Last edited by papa_umau on Sun 14 Jun 2009, 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by Historian on Sat 13 Jun 2009, 6:15 am

    This uses batteries - very expensive ones at that - with a finite life. Then there is still the problem of where to get the electricity from in the first place. A nice idea that will fail.

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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 13 Jun 2009, 12:06 pm

    You really do enjoy knocking other people's creativity when you have none of your own...don't you ?

    The main drawback of the Tesla cars is that they are very expensive and they will only appeal to people who are not petrol heads and who have plenty of money.

    What I would like to see is such vehicles being mass-produced and powered by fuel-cells rather than the national grid.

    No matter what luddites like you say, this IS going to be the motive power of the future.

    The car that uses this technology at the moment is THE HONDA FCX CLARITY and 200 of them have already been made and issued on lease to residents of California. ( Hydrogen filling stations are not available anywhere else yet ).

    At the moment the only way that hydrogen can be produced in large amounts is via convertion from natural gas and that is obviously a "fossil fuel" and creates it's own problems with CO2 output, but if manufacture is started using hydrolysis and sea-water this - the most abundant element in the universe - will come to the filling stations that choose to sell it as a pollution-free fuel.

    The oil and gas lobbies are terrified of this technology as if it catches on -
    which it will eventually - this will mean a massive drop in revenues to the petroleum companies.


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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by Historian on Sun 14 Jun 2009, 5:38 am

    I am not knocking Teslas creativity - merely pointing out its limitations. Why do you have such a problem with debate?

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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 14 Jun 2009, 1:08 pm

    And why do you have a problem with me standing up for what I believe in and hoping that the things that I believe in will one day become the norm.

    When I was getting my executive training, ( YES "EXECUTIVE" ), I was encouraged to find ways of doing things and making ideas work instead of constantly looking for reasons as to why they won't or don't. It was called a "can do" mentality.

    Maybe you would have benefitted from this kind of a course too ?


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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by wrinkles on Tue 15 Sep 2009, 2:40 pm

    The Tesla is a very good car and gets nearer to the optimum as it has looks speed and range. However When the top gear team go at it they found that although it ticked many of the required boxes the 150-200 mile rage was in fact down to 50 when driven hard. A recharge took 8-10 hours. It is OK for it's particular niche, ie a shopping car in London but mainstream, no chance. However It could just take off stranger things have happened. Take the Prius for instance. Tell me truthfully, what is the point of this car? OK it's a hybrid so runs on petrol generated electricity, so very popular with the tree huggers. BUT what does it do to the gallon? 200MPG? 150mpg? 100mpg? 50mpg then? nope 30 to 35mpg is the true figure. It is actually more fuel hungry and dirtier than my Citroen C5 2ltr diesel that does a consistent 40mpg and qualifies for reduced road tax due to it's cleaner exhaust.
    There was another car featured on Top Gear and this is the future of motoring the hydrogen powered car. No heavy expensive batteries, Fill up with liquid hydrogen at the pumps much as you do now, the only thing from the exhaust is water. Hydrogen is plentiful although expensive to harvest. The internal combustion engine will be history within a few years
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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 16 Sep 2009, 11:29 am

    Yes Wrinkles, both of those ideas are fraught with problems as 1). The all electric car just does not have the range to make it to everybody's taste...and 2). The cars that are adjusted to burn Hydrogen in their internal combustion chambers are - while thay are a bit cleaner than burning other fuels like LPG or biofuel - they are still using the "burn and exhaust" principle.

    I say that if we are going to have hydrogen available at most of the pumps we should be "burning" it in a fuel-cell that generates plenty of long-range electricity without any pollution at all.


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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by wrinkles on Wed 16 Sep 2009, 4:19 pm

    Actually the hydrogen car I spoke of does just that. The liquid hydrogen goes into the tank, the electric fairy waves her wand and magic happens. The hydrogen is turned into electricity and powers the car, the engine of which has only one moving part, so almost bullet proof. Power and acceleration is on a par to, or better than the equivalent conventional car.

    Top Gear's James May did a test drive in one in California or some such place. I believe it was made by Honda but will stand correction. If I recall his only gripe was a relatively low MPG figure.
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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 17 Sep 2009, 10:18 am

    wrinkles wrote:The Tesla is a very good car and gets nearer to the optimum as it has looks speed and range. However When the top gear team go at it they found that although it ticked many of the required boxes the 150-200 mile rage was in fact down to 50 when driven hard. A recharge took 8-10 hours. It is OK for it's particular niche, ie a shopping car in London but mainstream, no chance. However It could just take off stranger things have happened. Take the Prius for instance. Tell me truthfully, what is the point of this car? OK it's a hybrid so runs on petrol generated electricity, so very popular with the tree huggers. BUT what does it do to the gallon? 200MPG? 150mpg? 100mpg? 50mpg then? nope 30 to 35mpg is the true figure. It is actually more fuel hungry and dirtier than my Citroen C5 2ltr diesel that does a consistent 40mpg and qualifies for reduced road tax due to it's cleaner exhaust.
    There was another car featured on Top Gear and this is the future of motoring the hydrogen powered car. No heavy expensive batteries, Fill up with liquid hydrogen at the pumps much as you do now, the only thing from the exhaust is water. Hydrogen is plentiful although expensive to harvest. The internal combustion engine will be history within a few years

    Wrinkles also wrote:
    Actually the hydrogen car I spoke of does just that. The liquid hydrogen goes into the tank, the electric fairy waves her wand and magic happens. The hydrogen is turned into electricity and powers the car, the engine of which has only one moving part, so almost bullet proof. Power and acceleration is on a par to, or better than the equivalent conventional car.

    Top Gear's James May did a test drive in one in California or some such place. I believe it was made by Honda but will stand correction. If I recall his only gripe was a relatively low MPG figure.

    I think we are at cross purposes here as I wrongly jumped to the conclusion that you were talking about the range of cars that are to be available soon that actually burn hydrogen in their internal combustion engines. You obviously did not mean these ones. My mistake !

    I have been studying the fuel-cell for years since it was first developed to generate electricity and up until very recently this electric power obtained via the electro-chemical action in a fuel cell has not produced enough power to actually run a car on. Now, there are at least three motor-manufacturing companies that are working on making mass-produced "fuel-cell"-driven cars and the Honda FCX Clarity, ( mentioned above in a link ), seems to be the market-leader at the moment.

    Because this fuel-cell uses an electro-chemical reaction with a catalyst when any burnable material, ( hydrogen preferably ), is passed across the stacked membranes along with air, electricity in large amounts is produced at one end of the stack and the only waste products are heat and water-vapour at the other end.

    This is MY favourite system for pollution-free electric vehicles of the future !

    Until they do come on-stream it is the full hybrid, ( there are two types of hybrid engine....1). the full hybrid with a series-parallel system and 2). the mild hybrid with only a parallel system - as in the early Prius ), that will be the best bet.

    I plan to buy a new Toyota Prius next year as this car now has three very important qualities that the early ones did not have.

    1). The emissions level for the new Prius are around 89 g/km.

    2). The VED, ( road tax ), for this car is set at NIL for the above reason.

    3). The actual mileage for the full petrol/electrical hybrid engine running in "ECO" mode is around 72MPG. ( ECO-mode is the best mode for performance AND efficiency ).

    Oh and BTW...I am quoting from the actual brochure of the new Prius as we speak !


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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by wrinkles on Mon 02 Nov 2009, 1:49 pm

    I recently read an article from some guy who is, apparently, a conspiracy theorist who is of the opinion that many of these alternative fuels would, and could, have been in production years ago but for the intervention of the oil companies. His theory is that their money and clout served to stall, disrupt and sabotage progress of these technologies.
    Silly? Far fetched? but is it? I recall some 30 odd years ago a man who was local to me at the time coming up with an invention. The basis of which is that a petrol engine runs better in damp misty conditions because the water vapour ingested give a better burn. His invention centred on a system that heated water via a copper pipe that was wound around the exhaust manifold. It in turn generated steam which was fed directly into the air intake of the carburettor.
    During development he discovered a couple of other things. One, after working for a couple of hours in a closed garage with the engine running he realised that he should be dead from the exhaust fumes. He wasn't and further tests showed the car was running virtually clean. The second thing was that engine was rated as requiring 4 star petrol but would run happily without pinking on 2 star. The DIY system was developed and went to market in a pilot area. I bought one and successfully fitted it to a rally tuned 1600cc Ford escort cross flow engine. Almost overnight the kit disappeared from shops. I later found out from a neighbour that the inventor had been bought out lock stock and barrel by a large company. He retired with a very large bank balance and his invention and patent shelved and never resurfaced.
    Urban Myth? you might think so but I knew the man by sight and I knew his son well enough to speak to. They lived in Kidderminster and then disappeared.
    Now bearing in mind that the invention worked very well, it reduced MPG considerably and the exhaust was much cleaner. The rights were bought by a large company, but never developed further or marketed. Why? could it be that it was perceived as a threat to the oil company's profits? Question
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    Re: Is THIS the car of the future ?

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 02 Nov 2009, 2:37 pm

    I just love a good conspiracy theory myself !

    I don't, nevertheless, believe that some of these theories are actually conspiracies as they are often very true. It is CERTAIN that the powerful oil companies have supressed anything that may interfere with their sales of oil and road-fuels and while such oils were abundant the oil companies had a lot of money they could use for precisely this purpose.

    Now that oil and natural gas is starting to run out, ( and as the middle east and Russia has far too much control over these supplies ), they are looking at these ideas in a different light. They are now thinking about how they can actually make money out of these new technologies as they struggle to keep the supplies of oil And gas flowing.

    IT is this idea that will see the start of the hydrogen revolution and as far as I am concerned, the quicker the better.


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