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    Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

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    papa_umau
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    Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 02 Mar 2009, 1:43 pm

    After all of the recent hoo-haa about how the pension fund of the Royal mail workers was allowed to run out of money here we see the Royal Mail executives ENSURING that THEIR pension pot is not going down the tubes.

    Read this:

    Fury as Royal Mail bosses boost pension fund

    By Dave King of Scottish Daily Record Online

    FATCAT Royal Mail bosses have had their pensions pot doubled while the staff fund faces meltdown.

    Royal Mail paid 6million to senior executives' pension plan last year, double the previous year's payments, but the fund for workers has a 9billion black hole.

    Chief executive Adam Crozier, who is paid 3million a year, is one of the major beneficiaries of the bosses' scheme.

    He has accrued a 1.1million pension since joining Royal Mail in 2003 and has had another 1million paid into a private fund for him.

    The deficit in the general pension fund was due to the service taking a 13-year contributions holiday.

    It is now so big that it would bankrupt Royal Mail if it had to make up the massive shortfall.

    Ministers now accept that taxpayers will have to take on the debt burden and are demanding the controversial part-privatisation of the service.

    But the executives' scheme will not be included in the plan to sell 30 per cent of the organisation.

    Kevin Slocombe, of the Communication Workers Union, said last night: "It's one rule for the bosses and another for our members.

    "Bosses wash their hands of the main scheme and wait for the taxpayer to sort it out. Their priority is their own pensions.

    "Millions are being injected into their scheme to ensure it is safe."




    Well what do you think of THAT then ?


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 08 Jun 2011, 11:26 pm

    No, bloody free market enterprise.
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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 09 Jun 2011, 10:57 am

    That is a perfect example of the double-standards that are practiced by the people who have the ball at their feet.

    More "rules for those and different rules for such as those" I think.

    THIS is where the government watchdogs should be biting, as if they don't the unions certainly will and industrial chaos will ensue.


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 09 Jun 2011, 3:25 pm

    papa_umau wrote:That is a perfect example of the double-standards that are practiced by the people who have the ball at their feet.

    More "rules for those and different rules for such as those" I think.

    THIS is where the government watchdogs should be biting, as if they don't the unions certainly will and industrial chaos will ensue.

    Pap, my view remains, it doesnt matter what politicians through at us, we British will never rise any further than our next pint, soap opera, or packet of fags.
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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 12:03 pm

    AGAIN... I am forced to say that "we British" is not how I see the situation.

    Yes, there are many Brits that have not been able or willing to complain in the past but we ARE learning.

    Maybe you only go round in the circle of people that don't care about what they can do while I go around with the people that CAN & DO.

    In fact, sometimes I am surprised why you always take the defeatist attitude when you are obviously one of the champions that I keep talking about.


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by zathrus on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 12:55 pm

    I was dismayed to see that the final agreements for the privatisation of the Royal Mail came another step closer yesterday after another stumbling block to the sell-off cleared parliament.

    Now the only question left is; is it going to be a British private company that is going to buy it or is it going to be another foreign one ?

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 1:07 pm

    papa_umau wrote:AGAIN... I am forced to say that "we British" is not how I see the situation.

    Yes, there are many Brits that have not been able or willing to complain in the past but we ARE learning.

    Maybe you only go round in the circle of people that don't care about what they can do while I go around with the people that CAN & DO.

    In fact, sometimes I am surprised why you always take the defeatist attitude when you are obviously one of the champions that I keep talking about.

    Pap. when you have been going as many years as I have, you too will become defeatest, because you too are only human.

    I have recently joined a regional branch of The National Pensioners Convention for a fee of 3 per year.

    I have been talking to them about starting another branch nearer to me so I can get activelly involved in that branch, I will let you know the outcome.
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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 4:36 pm

    No Ivanhoe, "defeat" is not a word in my vocabularly and never will be.

    As we get older and more and more jaded some of us start to think that what we do in order to fight the good fight is either worthless or ineffectual but the thing is, if WE give up and capitulate who then is going to fight this particular fight?

    I will continue fighting so long as there is breath in my body and my mind still works.

    You, can please yourself.


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 5:15 pm

    papa_umau wrote:No Ivanhoe, "defeat" is not a word in my vocabularly and never will be.

    As we get older and more and more jaded some of us start to think that what we do in order to fight the good fight is either worthless or ineffectual but the thing is, if WE give up and capitulate who then is going to fight this particular fight?

    I will continue fighting so long as there is breath in my body and my mind still works.

    You, can please yourself.

    Pap, What would you call 20 years fighting ?, giving up ???????

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Guest on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 10:43 am

    As a Scot I would have thought you were all to aware of the meaning of defeat.

    Anyway the real story here is not the fat cats it is the cost to the taxpayer of propping up yet more state pensions - 20 BILLION was one figure I saw.

    The fat cats are the lazy ex civil servants who are sitting around watching the world go by whilst the taxpayer continues to work to fund his lifestyle. That is shameful.

    CC

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 11:39 am

    Clapco wrote:As a Scot I would have thought you were all to aware of the meaning of defeat.

    Anyway the real story here is not the fat cats it is the cost to the taxpayer of propping up yet more state pensions - 20 BILLION was one figure I saw.

    The fat cats are the lazy ex civil servants who are sitting around watching the world go by whilst the taxpayer continues to work to fund his lifestyle. That is shameful.

    CC

    Are you saying that you dont believe in a higher State pension for our elderly people ?
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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 12:31 pm

    Ivanhoe wrote:
    papa_umau wrote:No Ivanhoe, "defeat" is not a word in my vocabularly and never will be.

    As we get older and more and more jaded some of us start to think that what we do in order to fight the good fight is either worthless or ineffectual but the thing is, if WE give up and capitulate who then is going to fight this particular fight?

    I will continue fighting so long as there is breath in my body and my mind still works.

    You, can please yourself.

    Pap, What would you call 20 years fighting ?, giving up ???????

    Certainly not, but there are times when you sound "defeated" and lost and I think that in order not to let that jaded feeling take over our lives we have to keep re-newing our vigour by finding out the successes of others and emulating them.

    The successes ARE there if you are open enough to want to find them.


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 12:50 pm

    Clapco wrote:As a Scot I would have thought you were all to aware of the meaning of defeat.

    Anyway the real story here is not the fat cats it is the cost to the taxpayer of propping up yet more state pensions - 20 BILLION was one figure I saw.

    The fat cats are the lazy ex civil servants who are sitting around watching the world go by whilst the taxpayer continues to work to fund his lifestyle. That is shameful.

    CC

    Ok "CC" I have to respond to that slight:

    Let me tell you that the Scots in war have won many more battles than they have lost and in fact the "British" people can never thank them enough for what they do every day for them. In many of the great fights of history it was Scottish soldiers that were put in the van, ( vanguard ), of any battle.

    Yes, while we were nothing more than a disparate bunch of selfish clans we were easily picked off by the fat-cat barons and the redcoat armies of old, but out of that misery came a nation that has produced more important and gifted people - per capita - than any other country/nation in the world. If you are in the know, you will know that we also have produced most of the inventors that have made our modern life easy and successful and safe and if you look at any foreign land in and out of our commonwealth you will find Scots there in charge and in control.

    About "state pensions"..... The money gleaned from the taxpayers that pays for everything that the government does includes the money that is required to pay a decent pension to those that have served their country and paid THEIR taxes for a lifetime.

    That bill is only one of the bills that must be paid, and paying a fair amount is only based on what prority any government give on that particular need. The money IS there, ( do not let them fool you ). All that is needed is the desire to get it from the ones that hide it and pay it out to the ones that need it the most.

    I cannot understand how you can connect "lazy" or otherwise, ex-civil servants to the people that are supposed to run our large institutions as the people that are in that position usually come from the jobs-for-the boys old-school-tie brigade and not the civil service. ( Although some fat-cat senior civil servants do also come from that source ).

    When you use the word "shameful", you should really look to where you are chucking that indictment as the shame is very easy to find if you look in the right places.


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 1:10 pm

    Clapco wrote:As a Scot I would have thought you were all to aware of the meaning of defeat.

    Anyway the real story here is not the fat cats it is the cost to the taxpayer of propping up yet more state pensions - 20 BILLION was one figure I saw.

    The fat cats are the lazy ex civil servants who are sitting around watching the world go by whilst the taxpayer continues to work to fund his lifestyle. That is shameful.

    CC

    Before you answer my question about the State pension you seemingly are saying that tax payers cannot afford, allow me please to give you some present day facts.

    Means testing pensioners since Thatcher broke the State pensions link with male average earnings is costing 15 to 20 times more than the restoration of the earnings link, plus this Government are sitting on an ever growing National Insurance "surplus" of 50 billion.

    What you are seemingly listening to and believing is the media and political hype about an ever again population out growing workers.

    I will be interested to read your response.

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 1:20 pm

    papa_umau wrote:
    Ivanhoe wrote:
    papa_umau wrote:No Ivanhoe, "defeat" is not a word in my vocabularly and never will be.

    As we get older and more and more jaded some of us start to think that what we do in order to fight the good fight is either worthless or ineffectual but the thing is, if WE give up and capitulate who then is going to fight this particular fight?

    I will continue fighting so long as there is breath in my body and my mind still works.

    You, can please yourself.

    Pap, What would you call 20 years fighting ?, giving up ???????

    Certainly not, but there are times when you sound "defeated" and lost and I think that in order not to let that jaded feeling take over our lives we have to keep re-newing our vigour by finding out the successes of others and emulating them.

    The successes ARE there if you are open enough to want to find them.

    Yes you are right, I do feel "defeated" and lost" after 20 odd years of fighting for pensioners.

    Im wondering how you might feel after 20 years of struggling against apathy, and ignorance locally ?

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 1:27 pm

    Hi Ivanhoe. That's sad !

    I don't know what age you are but it seems that you are old enough to want to fight for your contemporaries. You must never let that feeling of defeat get you down as without people like you and Papa people like me who are getting ever closer to our pensions are still going to be treated badly by government.

    I have a very busy job to keep me going and it is only because I have very little free time that I can only get to ROB once a week. Maybe when I am retired I too can take up the sword of right and help you both in that fight.

    Keep up the good work as I am sure that many of us out here respect and value what you do.

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 2:44 pm

    Angie baby wrote:Hi Ivanhoe. That's sad !

    I don't know what age you are but it seems that you are old enough to want to fight for your contemporaries. You must never let that feeling of defeat get you down as without people like you and Papa people like me who are getting ever closer to our pensions are still going to be treated badly by government.

    I have a very busy job to keep me going and it is only because I have very little free time that I can only get to ROB once a week. Maybe when I am retired I too can take up the sword of right and help you both in that fight.

    Keep up the good work as I am sure that many of us out here respect and value what you do.

    Angie baby, I was 63 this Aprl 10th. So I started campaigning way back in my 40's.

    And, although, not intentioned by you, your remark about helping take up the cause when you are older, does smack of apathy, because it is now that you should be fighting, not later.

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 13 Jun 2011, 12:30 pm

    While it is true that the younger people SHOULD be helping to shape the way that the pensions are formulated I can see both sides of this particular coin, if you cannot.

    In these days of austerity most of the younger peeople are fighting every hour of the day just to keep their heads above water and I am sure that our Angie is as much like that as any of the others might be.

    Because of this situation many of the younger folks - after they have done their daily grind - are looking for light relief and are not looking to get into a fight about pensions.

    While I am no longer young, and I am now in fact just turned 67 years of age, I can still remember what it was like to be young. I did not take up the sword of right until I was retired from the civil service and found myself with time on my hands and looking for a cause to fight for.

    Most youg people live for the day and very few of them have the time or the interest to "waste" - as they would see it - on such banal subjects. As they get older and older they might then find that such subjects start to interest them more than they used to.

    THAT is life Ivanhoe and I don't think that we can expect the youngsters to find our values before they are ready to.

    I, in fact, find it quite amazing that our Angie can find the time to come and talk to us at all on ROB.

    Please don't drive her away as we need her youthful view on things.


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 13 Jun 2011, 3:18 pm

    papa_umau wrote:While it is true that the younger people SHOULD be helping to shape the way that the pensions are formulated I can see both sides of this particular coin, if you cannot.

    In these days of austerity most of the younger peeople are fighting every hour of the day just to keep their heads above water and I am sure that our Angie is as much like that as any of the others might be.

    Because of this situation many of the younger folks - after they have done their daily grind - are looking for light relief and are not looking to get into a fight about pensions.

    While I am no longer young, and I am now in fact just turned 67 years of age, I can still remember what it was like to be young. I did not take up the sword of right until I was retired from the civil service and found myself with time on my hands and looking for a cause to fight for.

    Most youg people live for the day and very few of them have the time or the interest to "waste" - as they would see it - on such banal subjects. As they get older and older they might then find that such subjects start to interest them more than they used to.

    THAT is life Ivanhoe and I don't think that we can expect the youngsters to find our values before they are ready to.

    I, in fact, find it quite amazing that our Angie can find the time to come and talk to us at all on ROB.

    Please don't drive her away as we need her youthful view on things.

    Pap, Younger people should be standing and being counted about the dreadful way their parents are treated in this country.

    I have no intentions of driving Angie baby away, but im not bowing and scraping for opinion from those in general who have nothing really worthwhile saying.

    Young people should make the effort and get involved, now.
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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 14 Jun 2011, 11:29 am

    It is easy to say that "young people SHOULD do this or that" or that the fat-cat bankers SHOULD give back their ill-gotten gains or that David Cameron should care about the pensioners, but trying to dictate what people "should" do will very seldom actually make them do it.

    It is a fact that younger people, ( and yes I AM stereotyping here ), don't give a damn about the elderly as their time is filled with looking after number one and what is happening to them at that precise moment in time. It is the way of that particular beast I am afraid !


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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 14 Jun 2011, 11:56 am

    papa_umau wrote:It is easy to say that "young people SHOULD do this or that" or that the fat-cat bankers SHOULD give back their ill-gotten gains or that David Cameron should care about the pensioners, but trying to dictate what people "should" do will very seldom actually make them do it.

    It is a fact that younger people, ( and yes I AM stereotyping here ), don't give a damn about the elderly as their time is filled with looking after number one and what is happening to them at that precise moment in time. It is the way of that particular beast I am afraid !

    Yes I agree, then it is up to political brain boxes like you and I to at least try to make young people "see the light".

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    Re: Bloody fat-cats do it AGAIN !

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 14 Jun 2011, 12:17 pm

    It's like trying to "make" people stop smoking.

    You can advise them of all of the pitfalls of smoking but you cannot FORCE them to do it - or anything else, come to that.

    When I take on a task I usually take on the ones that I can win and using that maxim means that I have many more successes than failures.

    To try to force people to do what is against their nature is almost always a losing battle.

    The more battles that we lose the deeper we get into lethargy and that damaging "defeatist" attitude that I keep talking about.

    I have used the term.... "Tilting at windmills" before as I think that tilting at windmills is a soul-destroying pastime that only succeeds in giving one a tired arm - from wielding that heavy lance.


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