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    UK steel industry ripped off again.

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    papa_umau
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    UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 13 Jul 2017, 11:42 am

    Britain's newest warships, ( The type 26 frigates ), of which there was going to originally have been 13 built have now been reduced to only eight, and what is worse is that two thirds of the steel needed to build these ships with is now going to come from SWEDEN.

    The British steel union bosses said that if they had been given time to prepare for this production then they could have made all of the steel right here in Britain.

    This eight billion pound project is expected to start at BAE systems in the next few weeks.


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    zathrus
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 13 Jul 2017, 11:50 am

    That's outrageous.

    We have done this many times before, as on previous contracts steel has been bought from both Poland and China to make British warships and other civil engineering contracts..

    It almost seems as if the governments that are doing this have a strong desire to kill off our steel industry completely.

    Almost all foreign countries guarantee that when any such projects are being built at home, that if they have the capability - as we do - to produce their own steel, that it WILL be made in their own country.

    Not, it seems, in Britain.
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 11:02 am

    I think the main problem here is the fact that all such contracts go to tender around the world and it is the cheapest price that gets the job.

    I can see what the government are trying to do here, ( save money ), but they do not seem to understand that home-produced steel is steel of guaranteed quality and buying it from British Steel helps our steel industry to survive.

    There are some things that should not be left to the "open market".


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    Gandhi
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Gandhi on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 11:14 am

    There is no way the Swedish steel will be the cheapest - I would guess there is a technical reason OR British Steel (whatever they call themselves today) got greedy which is far more likely

    For those interested in how the world works, the price of steel is linked to the price of concrete. The biggest consumer of both is the civil engineering sector. Whether it is cheaper to build bridges from steel or reinforced concrete is the determining factor in the pricing.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 11:27 am

    Now you are making excuses for the government not supporting our steel industry.

    Whether the steel is being used for building fridges or bridges or warships The British steel-makers should always get the first bite at the contracts.

    Other countries do it so why does our country, ( government ), not support OUR steel industry.

    BTW, I agree that "there is no way that the Swedish steel will be the cheapest", but that is how it is supposed to work if the taxpayers are to be saved from extra taxation costs.

    In truth it is simply just political games that the Tories are playing here, and they should be ashamed of themselves.


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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 11:33 am

    You just like an argument Gandhi, don't you ?

    I would hate to be you're wife.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 11:26 am

    Here is an article from HPC that suggests what Ghandi should do about his argumentative personality.

    Good discussion on boards like this is called "debate" but an argumentative personality just kills debate because they are only interested in what THEY think and are not ready to listen to the other person's view.

    Many anarchists are like this..


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    Gandhi
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Gandhi on Mon 17 Jul 2017, 8:03 pm

    Oh I'm sorry, this is a loony left forum for yes men. Sorry!
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    papa_umau
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:02 am

    They say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and they are right.

    Good debate - and argument - stimulates conversation, but you just do not seem to know how to do it.


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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 2:52 pm

    From what I know about the steel industry in Britain (admittedly not much!) our capacity for rolling and forging has been depleted to the extent that we would need a great deal of time and industry to get back up to speed with making the kind of steel sheet required for shipbuilding. Most of our steel mills are no more, having been bought out by Tata or Corus and run down. Hate to echo Ivanhoe, but Maggie started something evil when she stated the Great British Sale!
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 10:30 am

    I think you are right HG that our steel-making capacity has been reduced to a shadow of it's former self.

    This is not to say that we couldn't have produced the steel needed if a few of the furnaces and mills now in moth-balls were fired up again.

    Thatcher's initial attempt to kill off the steel unions and the steel-making plants, especially here in Scotland was carried on by other Tory governments right up until today.


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    Gandhi
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Gandhi on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 11:13 am

    When you no longer build ships and cars, and concrete is cheaper than steel for buildings, what you gonna do? Pay people to sit around doing nothing? This has nothing to do wth Thatcher, everything to do with overcapacity and economics. Just repeating left wind dogma won't make things better.

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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:59 pm

    I don't know what age you are Ghandi, but having lived through it (I'm a Baby boomer) I have first hand knowledge of the shenanigans perpetrated against the British People since Ma Thatcher came to power. Just being a Tory advocate will not help unless you can back up your statements with some solid evidence as to how they have really helped the people of Britain, not just their own cronies.
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Gandhi on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 3:28 pm

    Me too HG. I certainly don't want a return to the days when you turned on your tv and they listed which factory closed and how many job losses there were. That said we got through it and things are generally better than they were. The trouble is we wont admit it.

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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:12 am

    Depends on whose viewpoint you are seeing.

    I am assuming you are in business, or run your own company, or are in some employment which pays you pretty well. That is good, but you don't appear able to see things from the point of view of the people who are in less well paid employment, or are in need of fulltime work, but can only get zero hours cotracts, which guarantee nothing. The stress of that is appalling, if you can't plan for the future, especially for families. They may be struggling to pay rent on an uncertain income, faced with having to move again, with the additional stresses of having to relocate their children to other schools and with the added costs of new uniforms, etc.

    Then there are the homeless; often brought to that state by the aforementioned zero hours contracts and being evicted because of inability to pay rent; it is particularly difficult to calculate Housing and Council tax benefit on a constantly fluctuating income. Other times they could be ex-military, often with PTSD or other injuries which leaves them on the streets. Its no wonder they turn to begging or drink or drug abuse. It is inhumane that men and women who have put their lives on the line for this country should be so shabbily treated by the Governments who sent them to fight.

    Finally, we come to the disabled. Their quality of life has been repeatedly eroded by both New Labour and the Tories, with changes to the entitlements, closure of the Independent Living Fund, and restrictions on who can claim what in the way of benefits. Many disabled folk can only work with the Motabilty cars some are leased. These cars are leased to the person, they don't own them. If a disabled person loses their Motability car, they also lose their job. How's that for a Government purportedly keen to get the disabled into work? Totally Illogical.
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:24 am

    Thanks for that HG. Great stuff.

    I think the fact is that when we needed our own steel to build everything, we had it, but after Thatcher was finished with the steel industry and especially the steel unions we were then forced to start to buy steel from Poland, China, and laterly Sweden.

    Instead of destroying our steel industry supply by not protecting us from the cheap foreign imports, our steel industry should have been properly protected and given first bite at the cherry just like other countries do with their steel.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Sat 22 Jul 2017, 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 4:35 pm

    Exactly. This is why I would like to see the Tories ousted, so we can perhaps bring some sanity to the whole situation.
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 22 Jul 2017, 11:30 am

    Very few, except maybe Gandhi, would disagree with that HG.

    It IS the Tories that have run down our manufacturing capabilities over the years and it is them that should take the blame for us not now having the capacity to make all of the steel for all of our manufacturing needs.

    This crazy drive for austerity where the NHS and the education systems and the old and the poor and the sick are being hammered while they spend many billions of pounds on the Crossrail underground trains contract and many more billions on the HST trains contract, and are soon to spend around a hundred billions of taxpayers money on the latest nuclear war machine that is Trident-two seems totally wrong, as I see it.

    Only the Tories could get their priorities as wrong as that.


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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Sat 22 Jul 2017, 12:51 pm

    Tory Priorities; Us first, the rest of you nowhere!
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 23 Jul 2017, 11:25 am

    Yes, they are pretty good at looking after their own kind.

    The trouble is that many voters think they are Tories when, if they really examined what drives that party, they would never vote for them again.

    I know I keep harping on about Blair and his "New-Labour" successes while trying to look like a real middle-of-the-road party, but it will take something like that, but better, for a true third way and an end to two-party politics to begin.

    HERE is a Wikipedia article on what Tony Blair promised for Britain that will indicate what I mean.


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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Sun 23 Jul 2017, 1:18 pm

    Yes, Tony Blair did some good things, but he also did a great deal of harm, as did his successor, Gordon Brown. I don't trust the New Labourites; they are a few shades too blue for my liking. Also I don't like the way Blair is trying to shoehorn his way back in.
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    Re: UK steel industry ripped off again.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 10:50 am

    Very true; Blair is politically dead, he just won't lie down.

    The New Labourites had a good thing going for them but, as you say, they started to look far too blue to survive the cut and thrust of political life.

    I, and many more of the population, are looking for a leader and a possible PM that has all the charisma and intelligence of Tony Blair without his terribly bad habits.

    Political Britain is sick and tired of two-party politics and if a new great leader should appear, ( a bit like Macron in France ), I see no reason why the next "New-Labour" could not be a centrist party that we can all get behind.


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