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    The battle-lines are drawn.

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    papa_umau
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    The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 14 Mar 2017, 2:02 pm

    After the Peers back down over Brexit it now seems that Theresa May is clear to trigger article fifty.

    Of course, the starting of this process does not mean that the rest of the negotiations for getting out of Europe are going to be so easy.

    If Mrs May does not get a good enough deal for Scotland as part of the overall European deal, as we voted very clearly NOT to leave the EU, our First Minister will have a very strong case for a successful Indiref 2.

    I have to say that I would not like to be in Theresa May's shoes at the moment as she is caught between a rock and a hard place trying to do what she did not even want herself.


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    zathrus
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 16 Mar 2017, 11:20 am

    Good point Paps, as May was a "remainer" herself.

    I suppose that as she is Prime Minister she has to do what the majority want even if her heart is not in it.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 17 Mar 2017, 11:55 am

    True, and it must be niggling to her that she has to push ahead with something she does not want.


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    Angie baby
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 19 Mar 2017, 12:05 pm

    On the news last night:

    Nicola Sturgeon said, at her speech to the faithful yesterday, that Scotland WOULD get another referendum as Theresa May cannot deny the Scottish people what they want.

    May, really is a bit of a Thatcher clone if you look closely at her.
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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Sun 19 Mar 2017, 6:44 pm

    Was this the "once-in-a-generation" vote the SNP were talking about holding again? Got to remember that the vote for brexit was counted UK wide not for any individual region or country. If we had looked at certain shires or regions in England then we could argue that they wanted to stay in the crumbling megalith that is the EU.

    Sturgeon is playing out her student-union grievance politics agenda just because she never got her way again.

    Sturgeon wants to hold a Scottish Independance Ref. on the back of this supposed vote to stay in the EU by Scots voters, two different things entirely. The people in Scotland voted as part of the UK vote, but they do not want another Indy. vote and the polls are consistently showing that.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 11:45 am

    Andrew....The people of Scotland, as part of the referendum vote, voted conclusively to STAY in the EU.

    It seems that Theresa May does not value the wishes of the Scottish people.

    The possible outcome at the next Scottish referendum could be that the Scots who voted to stay in at that Brexit referendum may very well join with all of the YES voters at the last Scottish independence referendum to produce a result well past the fifty percent.

    Even if a few have changed their minds about voting Yes, after the Brexiteers, along with the right-wing Tories, deny Scotland it's settled will then independence will become a foregone conclusion.

    Nicola Sturgeon knows that it is all about timing and you can be sure that she will time the next Indi-ref vote just when it is needed most and is very likely to succeed.

    The "once in a lifetime" phrase was made long before the Brexit vote and before it threatened Scotland to be pulled out of Europe against it's will.

    This is a whole new ballgame and we shall just see how the Indi-ref vote goes this time.


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    riders_on_the_storm
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Mon 20 Mar 2017, 9:16 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Andrew....The people of Scotland, as part of the referendum vote, voted conclusively to STAY in the EU.

    It seems that Theresa May does not value the wishes of the Scottish people.

    The possible outcome at the next Scottish referendum could be that the Scots who voted to stay in at that Brexit referendum may very well join with all of the YES voters at the last Scottish independence referendum to produce a result well past the fifty percent.

    Even if a few have changed their minds about voting Yes, after the Brexiteers, along with the right-wing Tories, deny Scotland it's settled will then independence will become a foregone conclusion.

    Nicola Sturgeon knows that it is all about timing and you can be sure that she will time the next Indi-ref vote just when it is needed most and is very likely to succeed.

    The "once in a lifetime" phrase was made long before the Brexit vote and before it threatened Scotland to be pulled out of Europe against it's will.

    This is a whole new ballgame and we shall just see how the Indi-ref vote goes this time.

    Hmm I like your enthusiasm paps I really do.

    The Scots did vote to stay in the EU - as part of the UK - not as a separate nation. This time the question will be do you want Scotland to be an independent nation AND as we all know by now, eventually part of the EU. The answer will be no, mainly because the SNP can't tell us what currency we will be using, and how much it will cost, and how we will ever pay off our worst ever national debt, even worse than Greece.

    Then If we ever get to join the EU, then all our decision will be made by a bureaucracy far far away, even further than "westmonster"! Sturgeon, if she is still around, and if she somehow manages to realise her grand plan, will obviously take all the credit for the huge investment coming from the EU.

    There was a suggestion from Iceland that we could join the Nordic countries rather than the EU. That seems a better plan just on the face of it rather than being consumed by the EU. I struggle to understand how being in the EU is independent, but hey ho we are talking about Sturgeon after all, she's got more faces than big ben! She obviously has a grand plan scheming away under that female mullet of hers, I can take a guess what that is but will leave that for another day!

    Yes, the "once in a lifetime" phrase was just that - a phrase, it never meant anything to the SNP, just like everything else that comes out their faux-nationalists gubs.

    At the end of the day though do you not think that all this political upheaval for years to come will just cause more and more uncertainty, the markets and businesses want stability, and after all that is what keeps the economy and prosperity going. If we have 10 + years of this crap we are going to damage a lot. If it looks like the UK itself is going through political turmoil as Sturgeon wishes to see, then this will lower confidence, whereas if we are seen as one nation, and stable politically, then we will look a lot more attractive to outside investment as well as home grown businesses will flourish, unless of course Sturgeon builds a wall and starts antagonising England, by far and away and without shadow of a doubt Scotland's biggest export market.

    The UK and Brexit is an exception, we have only been in the EU for a couple of decades, we can slip back out relatively unfazed, and by the looks of it we have a whole world actively waiting to do business with us again, once we finally unshackle and get out of the of the corrupt and regulatory-heavy EU.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 21 Mar 2017, 11:24 am

    Never at any time have I said that the EU and especially the EC had a good way to do things, as they are corrupt and top-heavy, costing the inputting nations far too much for what they get out.

    One advantage of Scotland getting its independence from London rule will be that we can then work out our own deal with the EU.

    It will be far too complicated to enter into discussion here about it, but once Brexit is complete or nearly complete Mrs May will no longer be able to stop us getting indi-ref 2.


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    Gandhi
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by Gandhi on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 8:33 am

    'Join the Nordic countries' lol - You aren't Alex Salmond by any chance are you?

    They are rich (Iceland excepted) because of natural resources with a small population. The UK have neither.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 27 Mar 2017, 11:00 am

    In subjects like this you cannot generalise Gandhi.

    The example of the Nordic countries are against a free Scotland where we WILL have a small head of population and we WILL have many natural resources alongside oil, natural gas, energy, and many other exports like whisky, fishing-products, hi-tech products, finance, and many more that you obviously know nothing about.

    Read THIS and get the facts.


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    Re: The battle-lines are drawn.

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