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    May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

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    papa_umau
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    May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 25 Oct 2016, 11:50 am

    Sturgeon tells May she's 'not bluffing' over referendum

    First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned Theresa May she is not "bluffing" over her promise to hold an independence referendum if Scotland's vote against Brexit is "not respected".

    After talks in Downing Street, she said she was not prepared to see "Scotland driven off a hard Brexit cliff-edge".

    She and the first ministers of Wales and Northern Ireland demanded to be fully consulted on EU negotiations.

    Find the latest on this meeting from the BBC HERE




    Seeing Nicola Sturgeon showing a hard-nosed stance on this subject on the BBC news yesterday I was wondering just what is REALLY going on in her mind.

    Knowing that the Scottish First Minister is looking for good reason to call a second independence referendum I suspect that she is not going to be easily swayed from this course by any crumbs from Theresa May; therefore, the more difficult May makes the transition out of the EU the better Sturgeon will like it.

    Opinions please.


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    zathrus
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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 27 Oct 2016, 11:33 am

    Just as one might have expected.

    The bigger the row over Brexit the better Sturgeon likes it.
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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Thu 27 Oct 2016, 8:12 pm

    Hi all,

    Sturgeon is doing what she does best, complaining.

    The record is wearing very thin now. I am surprised May has not quietly told her to b*gger off, but at least she has to be diplomatic even is Sturgeon isn't

    I reporduce below and article from an eminent UK historian which sums it up quite well. Not much more to say really. Comments would be welcome.:


    'THERE is more than a whiff of the Bonnie Prince Charlie about Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon: a stirring call to arms based on a romantic notion of Scottishness that eventually leads to disappointment and defeat. But whereas the Prince left hundreds of dead clansmen on the field of Culloden before fleeing back to France, Sturgeon seems intent on impoverishing an entire nation of millions with her narrow-minded vision of Scotland and its place in the world.

    It really is time for some straight talking about her SNP bluster. When Scotland joined the Union with England in 1707 it did so in large part because it was bust. A failed colonial investment had brought it to the brink of bankruptcy and desperate Scots wanted to link up with the more financially sound and successful economy south of its border.

    Today Scotland is in a worse economic situation than Greece – the basket case of continental Europe. But Sturgeon is determined to keep Scotland part of the EU despite the fact that it would now fail the stringent criteria to join the trading union. Germans would baulk at bailing out another irresponsible country living way beyond its means.

    And yet, like a Bonnie Prince Charlie, Nicola Sturgeon peddles romantic ideals to her followers. She plans for Scotland to be powered by green energy but her target can only be met with further subsidies from Westminster. She rules out replacing Scotland’s ageing nuclear plants and rejects fracking and yet the looming energy gap will most likely be fed by English or American shale gas.

    In the meantime the beautiful landscape of the Highlands is being disfigured and drained of water by poorly designed hydroelectric schemes. I have a great passion for Scotland. Part of my family comes from the Highlands and I’ve written a book about its brave soldiers but what became very clear in my research was that Scotland was at its most prosperous and influential when it was part of the United Kingdom and the British Empire. Having failed in their independent colonial ventures, Scots went on to thrive as entrepreneurs and governors around the world, making their mark from Canada to Hong Kong to Australia. The second city of the Empire, Glasgow, made the ships that kept this international network going.

    Today Sturgeon should be embracing Brexit, not rejecting it, as it is Scotland’s best chance to re-engage with the global economy on a more competitive level and sell its talents and products beyond the EU. And yet Sturgeon has instructed her 56 MPs to vote against the Great Repeal Bill when it comes before Parliament: the legislation that will end the EU’s legal supremacy over the UK.

    With many Conservatives MPs barely able to hide their pro-EU sympathies this constitutes a very real threat to the will of the British people as expressed in the referendum. It is of course simple blackmail intended to put more pressure on the Westminster Government to grant Scotland even more autonomy at the expense of the rest of the UK. Sturgeon has the temerity to claim that xenophobia has risen in Scotland after Brexit and yet it is her SNP that has fostered a narrow-minded and prejudiced view of her closest neighbours. Despite all this a majority of Scots voted to remain in the UK in 2014 and continue to demonstrate their support for the Union in poll after poll since the referendum.

    It is becoming clear that Sturgeon’s weakening grip on power in the Scottish Parliament is the real reason behind her increasingly desperate noises about a further independence referendum. In reality her bluster is directed more at her own supporters than the majority of Scots.

    Theresa May is quite right to give her short shrift when it comes to the EU. Scotland has much to gain from a successful Brexit and Sturgeon should curb her own prejudices and do the best for her country and not her party. After all, most Scots were glad to see the back of Bonnie Prince Charlie when he scuttled back to the comfort of the French court. It seems apparent now that a Scottish Conservative Party under the redoubtable leadership of Ruth Davidson could well re-shape Scottish politics yet again, skewering the dangerous posturing of Nicola Sturgeon and emphasising the jobs and prosperity for blue- collar Scots that could be won with a successful Brexit UK economy.

    As a southern Highlander I would very much welcome that.


    Nice one !

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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 28 Oct 2016, 11:52 am

    Yeah, that's an interesting review.

    There is no doubt that Sturgeon is appealing to the "Braveheart" side of Scottish psyche as she tries to get what she can from Europe as a forerunner to actually calling for a second referendum.

    As she is nobody's fool she will wait until the Scots people are sick to the back teeth of the Brexit shenanigans before she does call for a second referendum on independence.

    I think, by the time that Britain HAS eventually drawn out of Europe and been given a few crumbs from Theresa May's table we are going to be really feeling like the poor outsiders that Westminster has always thought we were.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Fri 28 Oct 2016, 3:36 pm

    Hi all,

    A very reasoned reply Paps.

    Problem is I don't want Scotland and her people to feel 'outsiders' !!!. There is too much skill and talent in the country. We have stood together as one nation for over 300 years and we are all BRITISH wih each of the countries having our own unique ways and customs, they are not 'outsiders' by any means. That's what is great about it. We work better together.....

    I would HATE Scotland and my ancestoral heritage to be ruined by this woman and her narrow ideas. I just don't undertand the thinking, and its creating such bitterness. Scotland can still have its own parliament and should make decisions as part of the UK..I see no problem with that.

    I want to have my little trips over the border and feel proud of all we have got. That woman is ruining that relationship and she is p*ssing off many this side of the border!!!.

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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 29 Oct 2016, 12:04 pm

    I really cannot understand why you blame everything on Nicola Sturgeon as she is just a figurehead for the SNP.

    Yes she does have some nasty ways about doing stuff, but I would rather have a nasty First Minister than one that cowtows to London.

    I do not think that there is a better person for doing that job in the SNP than Sturgeon, as she is not only hated by the opposition, but she is feared by them also.

    Her mandate is to get the best deal she can for Scotland and if she cannot do that while staying under Theresa may's heel she will do it as the First Minister of an independent Scotland.

    You don't have to like her, but I still feel that she is the best man or woman for the job.


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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 29 Oct 2016, 12:29 pm

    I certainly don't like her either, but I have to admit that I quietly admire her.

    She is a woman's woman as she is every bit the genderless First Minister of Scotland.

    I would hope though, that she is not gay, as there are enough gay party leaders in Scotland already.
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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 30 Oct 2016, 12:03 pm

    Yes, well spotted Angie, as the Tory female leader and the Labour female leader in the Scottish parliament are both gay.

    Mind you, that does not make them bad people. Evil or Very Mad

    I am sure that Nicola Sturgeon is not gay as she is married to a man called Peter Murrell.

    Sadly, she has not produced a family yet as she has had a miscarriage in 2011.

    Mind you, I think I would not like to be her husband as I think she will be hard to live with.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 30 Oct 2016, 4:48 pm

    Hi aLL,

    Yeah, I loath the woman , but I never thought she was gay. Either way, that makes no matter as its a personal thing, and I have nothing against that.

    Its just her fantasy politics that  get me going.

    One thing though, I do pity her husband also Paps. I don't know if he knew what he was letting himself in for when he married that!!.
    I bet if he ever divorced her or visa versa it would be a hell of a nasty affair.

    She is a qualified lawyer, but I heard that once she finished training the firm who employed her did not offer her a job..( They must have been seriously p*ssed off as well, as it seems a little strange ). She either wound them up, or was a crap lawyer is all I can think of.

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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 11:19 am

    I think that even then her plan was to have the law degree to help her in politics.

    After spending a period as a working solicitor in Glasgow, she went into the SNP and very quickly became the Shadow Minister for Education Health and Justice, and the deputy First Minister to Alex Salmond, and as he was already an MP is Westminster she took over the job as Scottish First Minister very early on.

    She is a shrewd individual and perfect for the job of First Minister as she is nobody's fool.

    As Angie says, "you do not have to like her to respect her".


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    Re: May and Sturgeon fall out over Brexit.

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