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    Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

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    zathrus
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    Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 12:11 pm

    Brexit could be halted after Government admits MPs likely to have final say.

    Parliamentary vote on final Brexit agreementhailed as 'victory' by pro-EU MPs.

    Parliament has the right to reject the final Brexit deal, No.10 has indicated for the first time raising the possibility that Britains EU exit could yet be halted.

    Downing Street agreed it is very likely that MPs and peers will be given a vote once the withdrawal negotiations are finished, after the issue arose in the High Court.

    See what I found in the online Independent newspaper here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-could-block-brexit-deal-no-10-admits-a7368561.html

    I think that was why Theresa May wanted to keep that decision all to herself.
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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 2:44 pm

    Hi All,

    Yes Zath, I saw that. I think if the MP's deliberately go against the democratic vote of the people all hell will be let loose. I don't think she will dare do that.....However, let us wait and see. IF she does just watch the metioric rise of UKIP !

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 12:06 pm

    Sorry Technician, but that is just wishful thinking, as the UKIP party are at the moment looking like a crazy headless chicken without Nigel Farage leading them.

    The first two attempts at finding another leader both went awry when one woman resigned and the next guy got knocked out in a fist fight and eventually gave up the race too.

    The only one who is left that is sounding like a possibly successful runner could be MEP David Coburn, but as he is very gaff-prone he could actually be the death of the party.

    If a full debate and vote is allowed while working out a possible deal with Europe and a vote is included at the end we may find that the hard Brexit plan will hit the rocks and sink without trace.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 4:42 pm

    Hi all,

    Sorry Paps, not so. UKIP is riven with in fighting which is not good I agree. If May goes back on her word Nigel will be back in charge like a shot ( he has said as much ) . Watch the sparks fly then !.

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 11:35 am

    I think it all comes down to "degree" when the Brexit moves are going through the parliament.

    A simple and single vote on a hard Brexit is just not going to happen as the "remainers" in the Houses of Parliament are going to try to put stopping tactics at every stage of this extremely complicated exit from Europe.

    In fact there is an action called a "filibuster" where opponents of the withdrawal from Europe can cause a log-jam by talking anything down until it is eventually lost.

    There are going to be dozens of opportunities to do this each time that a point is raised connected to the withdrawal from Europe

    In fact, just about everybody now knows that this "exit" could take many long years to get through the British parliament, if at all.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 2:01 pm

    Hi all,

    Yes Paps, I see clearly what you are saying and where you are coming from. However, the 'Remoaners' can moan all they want. Where on the referendum paper did it say 'light brexit' ?. OUT is out, and May had better deliver. If she does not then one thing I can predict. Civil unrest.

    On a personal note, and this is drastic I know, I woulkd tell all the b*ggers in the EU to stuff it, but as the is neither a realistic or practical line of action, we do have a whole world out there to trade with. It is only a matter of time before the whole sorry edifice falls in on itself, as it has shown itself time and time again as an organisation which CANNOT be reformed !

    The economic signs then are fairly clear. That is but ONE reason I cannot see the sensible Scotts falling for Sturgeons fantasy politics again. In fact The SNP and Sturgeon have failed to produce ANY document from the EU to confirm that, "...Scotland has already guaranteed its fast accession to EU after its independence.". If they had such a documented cast iron guarantee from the EU it would in the media for all to see. The Basques would also be cheering with delight as it would give weight to their own independence ambitions. However it is still an SNP fairy story for children that still believe in Father Christmas.

    No Paps, the edifice will go bottom us soon, and then you will be up the creek withoput a paddle

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 12:06 pm

    Yes, there are lots of possibilities in the near future, but until we know more about what Theresa May intends, it is all conjecture.

    Be sure though, that if Scotland loses out on it's access to the full European markets because of the type of Brexit we get, we are going to find that up here not only will the SNP followers, but the Greens, AND a lot of the Labour supporters who are pro-EU are now going to vote YES for independence.

    Once the rest of Britain is out, including Scotland, against the wishes of the Scottish people there are many of the English, Welsh and Northern Irish people who voted to remain that are going to want to have closer ties with a Scotland that is still in the EU under it's own terms.


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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by Gandhi on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 8:59 am

    I spoke to my MP about it and he reckons the majority of MPs believe the referedum was 'democratic' and should be followed even though it was won with the tiniest of margins.

    Personally I think the Brexshits should be ignored - the referedum was only advisory.

    As I said before this will run and run - the Tory party certainly remains split and it will be interesting to see how the rest fall into line. Certainly the LibDems seem to be enjoying a comeback on the promise of a second referendum.

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:42 am

    The referendum was not "only advisory" as it was the will of the people, even if that will was not won by a great majority.

    Because of the democratic manner of the referendum the result was a binding one that the government were forced to implement.

    Even as a remainer myself, I recognise democracy, and like everybody else, whether I like it or not, I to have to abide by the result.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 5:28 pm

    Hi all,

    Thank you Paps, at least you understand the process. We hear today that May will NOT be able to go ahead and implement Article 50 without a parliamentary vote.( although the government are to appeal the decitions at the High Court ). So our judges find it acceptable to kick democracy in the teeth. let us see what transpires. Nigel Farage is certain that berexit is being undermined, and perhap it is. The British public are not fools.

    May could call a snap election in an effoert to assert her authority ( I think not though ). Of course the 'remoaners' are pi**ing themselves with delight. However this does not mean we will not leave the EU !!. Make it as hard as you want. One thing is for sure, if they even attempt to overturn the democtratic voite of the people they are in as Ian Duncan Smith says 'uncharted waters' and heading for a 'catastrophy'. Just wait till the rioting starts on the streets !

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 11:30 am

    No government can deny the democratic will of the people, although often they do try to stop it becoming law by slowing it down to a stop via filibustering and tying such subjects up in endless committee meetings.

    Also the Lords can keep sending stuff back and forth from and to the commons in a desire to defeat the democratic will of the people.

    It was going to be complicated enough when Theresa May was reserving the triggering of article 5 to herself, but now, if the Supreme Court overrules the decision of the High Court to put the process before the full parliament I can see this Brexit vote taking many years to get right.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 2:14 pm

    Hi all,

    Yes Paps, with all the meddling perhaps. On reflection i can see something a little more sinnister. The 'remoaners' ( Ghandi comes to mind ) will be over the moon at this decision, as they have made significant headway in trying to overule the will of the people. In some ways I am bemused. As you will recall before we had the brexit vote I had implied I was sure we would not win as the result would be 'fixed' by Cameron, but I was wrong. However, I never imagined it would be fixed this way !!.

    Its early days, and muhch more s*it is bound to hit the fan. In one way, if I was May and we did not win on appeal I would call an immediate general election. The MP's voted 6 to 1 to allow the public a referendum. If the geographics are taken into account ( outside London ), and all the people who voted brexit voted Tory there would be a massive landslide majority for her in the commons.( I certainly would not want to be a remain MP in a constituency whom voted to leave ). Either way she stands to gain a substantial majority which would give a bloody nose to all the other party's including 'Queen Nicola' and her SNP mob.

    Of course Nigel Farage has pointed out this subterfuge all along, as we know from experience the EU and its 'associates' just ignore public opinion and democratic votes if they don't go their way, so its a bit of a sense of 'deja vue'. UKIP remain an unknown quantity, even though my sympathies are very much with them. I suspect that should an election be called they may well be a major force, and unfortunately if the will of the people is ignored the groundswell of discontent we have now will be insignificant in the trouble ahead.

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by Gandhi on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 8:19 am

    You gotta laugh at all the Brexshits whining about sovereignty then when faced with it and it goes against them they throw a wobbler.

    Maybe you should appeal to the European Court of Justice Tech

    As it happens I think this is a red herring - any vote will be carried because most mps do not have the balls to go against 'the will of the people' That it is being put to the vote is correct. The action was even brought by a quitter so leave have only themselves to blame.

    The problem remains how to accomodate the wishes of the 48% who will not go away

    Personally i think they should simply call the whole thing off as too close to call - democracy is about choosing leaders to carry out the will of the people. Referendums ARE only advisory (though the AV vote was)

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:38 am

    The question in the referendum was simple: IN or OUT and the people voted for OUT.

    Even if this vote was a close call it was a win for the Brexiteers. This cannot be denied.

    Where it could all go wrong is if the parliament, driven by the remainers in the house of commons want to bring these negotiations down they can do that, as history has proved that when a question is easy but the implementation of the result of that question is not easy a log-jam of process can destroy what was simple in the first place.

    If the supreme court uphold the decision of the high court then the whole shebang is going to have to go to a parliamentary vote.

    Even this will be a difficult thing to do as there may be a number of parliamentary votes to come set around all of the separate points that will be raised going towards the implementation of article 50 of the Lisbon treaty.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:09 pm

    Hi All,

    Mmmm, the usual Bull Sh*it from Gahndi...lets take a general election...Labour win 52%..Tory Loss..48%.....Do we need a re-run Ghandi until we 'get it right'. Not ever seen that have you ???. No, you are just a sore loser and anti democratic.

    May should now call an election and call their bluff.

    I bet if she did we would see a massive surge in support for UKIP, but that should not worry May, as even if the Tory's win ( which it is odds on they will ) then she can be sure of the support of all the UKIP MP's in triggering Article 50 ASAP and clear Brexit.

    I am sure that Traitor Clegg and what is left of the so called 'Liberal Democrats' would be history. Corbyn would be truly floored, and the backlash may well give Sturgeon and the SNP fanatics a bloody nose as well....Bring it on !

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 12:21 pm

    There are a lot of "hopes" and "maybe's" there Technician and thinking clearly at the problems does not suggest any easy answers.

    One thing is pretty certain, and that is if Theresa May is hammered by the Brexiteers for not guaranteeing a hard Brexit we MAY see her calling an early election.

    The result of that would be very hard to foresee.


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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by Gandhi on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 7:51 am

    Sorry if you see it that way tech but as I have said before I am very much at the 'coal face' as far as the economy goes whereas you are very much in your ivory tower protected from the real world by your public sector pensions and benefits.

    Democracy is about choosing a leader - what you are describing is majority rule. The result was so close that I believe you are the sore loser for not having a large enough majority to get away with all the stupid things the quitters want to do. It is the governments job to do what is best for the interests of the people and if that means dumping Brexshit then so be it.

    Having lived in relative prosperity all my life I am not prepared to see it undone by a group of people who know very little about what makes the world tick apart from what they read in the Daily Mail

    In a GE the opposition keep the government honest. Expect the same from the Bremainers.

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:55 am

    "Democracy" is arrived at by the will of the people. Simple as that.

    Even if you do use insulting language and you are a bit of a wind-up merchant, you have to do what the rest of us do, and that is to accept the result of the Brexit vote, even if it was won by a relatively small majority.

    THAT, is all past and done, and now we are getting into the details of HOW we are going to pull out of the EU.

    Before article 50 can be triggered we have to have a democratic consensus in the parliament about HOW it is going to be done, and if the Supreme Court uphold the judgement of the High Court then anything done going towards this exit will have to be voted on by the full parliament.

    If this is done point by point the actual signing of article 50 could take a very long time to come about.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

    Hi all,

    Thanks Paps, we may not agree on a lot, but at least you undertand the issues and support the democratic process. Leftie 'Luvvies' like Ghandi are one of the main reasons the UK population voted out. When they can't get you on the trumped up 'race' card ( because you may think there are too many migrants in the UK ) they go personal. For some reason ( after 40 years of work and never once claiming on the state ) he is p*ssed off that I have a Public Sector Pension!!!

    Perhaps Ghandi has not got one, but who's choice was that, and more to the point what has it got to do with BREXIT ???. This country will be ultimately far better off once we break free of the EU yolk. Such petty arguments are hardly worthy of a reply. If May cocks up on Brexit, and Queen Nicola thinks she can put another spanner in the works with her 'legal challenge' then there are going to a lot of very angry people in this country and if that does happen then I dread to think of the consequences.

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 10:39 am

    Yes, I do think that there is a lot of jealousy out there against people who have a public sector pension like we have.

    When I left my trade in 1964 because the building trade was having a serious slump the main reason for going into the civil service was the fact that it came with a very good final salary pension.

    I have never regretted that decision.

    I am sure that whatever happens in the supreme court the Brits will have to eventually get used to the idea that we are pulling out of the EU.

    With a bit of luck and a clever soft exit we may still find that a lot of the European states will want to trade with us afterwards, as they are going to lose a lot too if we are totally forced out of Europe.



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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by Gandhi on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 8:00 am

    Some more facts for you guys

    Sorry if they get in the way of your dogma

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:41 am

    Stop being so condescending Gandhi as we all know what "Democracy" means.

    Anyway, I think that the word "dogma" is attached to those who follow political rules to the detriment of free thinking. The Anarchists are probably one of the most dogmatic groups in modern and historical politics.

    If the cap fits....and all that.


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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 10:59 pm

    I think 'Maggie' May is going to get an earbashing from the Queen soon, as the PM has announced that she is going to abolish some of the Royal Warrants. So, she is trying to usurp the Royal Prerogative. OOOPS!

    Would love to be a fly of Her Maj's wall when that one happens!
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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

    Thanks for the info' HG, as I hadn't heard about that one.

    Although we do not know Mrs May all that well yet, I have noticed that she likes her own way and would make a good dictator instead of a Prime Minister.

    Maybe she has been watching the way that Trump does it eh ?


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    Re: Brexit could be halted after a vote is now available.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

    Think she took both Maggie and Cameron lessons!

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