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    No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

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    papa_umau
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    No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 11:37 am

    Brexit: No vote on talks but MPs may have say on EU deal

    MPs will not get to vote on how Brexit negotiations are handled but could still be asked to approve the "final" deal, a government source has said.

    Several senior politicians, including ex-Labour leader Ed Miliband, have demanded Parliament gives its verdict on the UK's departure from the EU.

    Get the full report from The BBC HERE




    It is certainly looking as if Theresa May wants to keep all of the power in her own hands as she tries to produce a deal for Britain outside the European Union.

    Although this is not very democratic I suppose that doing it that way will save the task from getting bogged down with parliamentary squabbling on the subject.

    Do the Robsters think this is a good way to do it ?


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    Gandhi
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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by Gandhi on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 9:23 pm

    I dont believe she has the authority to do anything - the conservatives were not voted in to leave the EU and will soon find themselves with no mandate to do anything if they try having only a majority of 10. I think this will run and run - there are 16 million people who do not accept the referendum was legitimate. Once the 10% price increases kick in next week the brexiteers will crumble like a pack of cliches. And with Boris threatening war with Russia......you couldn't make it up
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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 11:47 am

    As PM Theresa May obviously thinks that she does have the authority to keep what she does about the EU out of the hands of the democratically-elected house of commons, there is going to be a lot of rows concerning how we do this.

    Because the Brexit vote was as close as 17 million for out to 16 million to stay in, if democracy is allowed to work while we try to draw out, this actual action is going to take much longer than just two years to get it done.

    As far as Boris is concerned.... as he is a laughing stock and the clown of the commons, nobody really gives a hoot about what he says or does.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by Hell's Granny on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 2:32 pm

    For once I agree with you Ghandi!
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    papa_umau
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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 11:32 am

    There you go Gandhi, you have at least one supporter in the Robsters.


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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by zathrus on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 11:55 am

    And now that May is not letting go of her plans Nicola Sturgeon said on the national news last night that if Scotland cannot contribute directly to the UK withdrawal plans she will have to trigger another independence vote.

    As Scotland did not actually vote to leave the EU this was inevitable.
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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 1:50 pm

    Technician's friend Sturgeon is going to have to be very careful how she goes about calling for a second referendum vote.

    Her main reason why she may do this is because at the Brexit vote Scotland did not vote to withdraw from the EU, while England did.

    If Scotland does not get it's settled will on this subject then another independence vote will be virtually automatic, on that basis.


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    Brexit withdrawl

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 9:50 am

    Hi All,

    Would like to have made a comment earlier, but I have had a week on the Norfolk Broads, and and the boat I make a point of keeping away from phones, the internet and the rest of society. A week of peace nature and slow 'pottering' whatever the weather...

    Now, back to reality. Brexit means BREXIT. That is what the British public voted for; and the government better deliver.( not 'light' brexit, the voting slip said leave the EU ) Ghandi if off on one again, as like all 'remoaners' he is a sore loser. We knew a long while in advance that the Tory's promised a referendum, and that was only promised as they werer scared of what UKIP might do.

    To their credit they had the referendum and lost. A chance you take.

    As for Sturgeon and the SNP the only agenda she and her party have is to get and independent Scotland. OK, she is clear on that, but she has little say in the EU.

    Firstly Scotland does not meet the current economic requirment of the EU to become and independent member; as the Scottish economy is the pits ( she ignores that ).

    Secondly, other member states are in all probability likely to vote against Scotland ( Spain in particular as they can see the Catalonian nationalists trying the same trick )

    Thirdly she will not push too soon for her sacred referendum, as it is dawning on the sesnsible people of Scotland that she is pushing for total open border policies and mass immigration. On that ticket the country will see a vast influx of migrants and a metioric pressure on public services.

    Fourthly, to 'pay' for this folly there will be in all probabiity a massive increse in the tax burden on the average Scottish houshold. That in itself is probably going to be the main issue for worried Scots, and why I think in all probability she will fail again.

    Fifthly, she has no authority to go it alone. the EU ( surprise, surprise ) has made it clear they are dealing with the whole of the UK of which Scotland is a part. They will not negotiate any seperate deal with them.

    She can moan and bluster all she wants, but it aint going to happen her way.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 11:43 am

    I still think that if Scotland wants to have close ties with Europe we are just going to have to do it in any way that we can up and until we eventually win an independence referendum.

    Once totally on our own I am sure that many of the members of the EU will welcome us back with open arms even if a few are going to be awkward about it.

    This is all for the future anyway, as we don't know what effect a hard Brexit withdrawal is going to have on the UK and especially on Scotland.

    At the moment the effect that all of this instability is having on the money markets is causing the computers that do the money-trading to sell the pound and by this reducing it's value severely.

    The wife and I are going to Lanzarote in December to celebrate our golden wedding anniversary, and if the pound keeps dropping like a stone as it is doing just now I have no clue how many Euros a pound is going to buy.


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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 11:56 am

    Theresa May has a bloody cheek trying to bulldoze through what she wants to do without giving the rest of the Commons a chance to debate this important move before voting on it.

    As the days go by she is looking more and more like a dictator rather than a Prime Minister.
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    Brexit

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 16 Oct 2016, 2:15 pm

    Hi All,

    I agree with most of your posts Angie, but on this differ. Nothing to do with bulldozing. The decision, by the British people has been made. We want out of Europe, so do it. No second vote no if's or, buts'. Its called democracy. Many don't like the result and try and manipulate all they can. What don't the remainers understand here ?. We voted OUT, not a compromise....Get on with it !

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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:05 pm

    I don't think you understand just how complex this move is going to be.

    We know that Theresa May was on the "remain" side and as such I think we might expect her to try to get the best deal possible in the Brexit negotiations.

    The fact that she is not allowing any in-depth debate about this in the commons before she just goes ahead with what she thinks best, means that there is going to be no democratic withdrawal from the EU and the triggering of article 50 of the Treaty of European Union WITHOUT any democratic process will be simply unconstitutional.

    ( Also, she does not want to give any ammunition to Nicola Sturgeon in her need to hold a second independence referendum ).

    HERE is a full explanation of this from OpenEurope.

    In other words this withdrawal needs done with a scalpel and not an axe.


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    Brexit etc

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 2:57 pm

    Hi All,

    Complex...if we let it be. The people have said B*llocks to the EU. They can bluster all they want in Brussels. We will now be in aposition to formulate our own trade deals with the rest of the world, something the Scots will not be able to do IF they let you in.

    What exactly is the Scottish idea of independence? The SNP and its supporters appear to believe that by voting to leave the UK and becoming a member of the EU it will give Scotland independence.
    It won't. Currently, we are oppressed by EU laws, rules, regulations and diktats which if piled one on top of another, would stand almost as high as Nelson's Column!. Every one of them is expected to be obeyed by our masters in Brussels and so far in the past 10 years Britain has been fined 600 Million for breaches of those 'laws'. ( can Scotland afford this or a similar high ammount ?)

    Not one of these laws etc went through a truly democratic process and were mainly dreamed up by the Commissioners - ( and again the books have not been 'passed' this year by the auditors ). This unelected bunch such as the Kinnocks are desperate to remain on the gravy train. Do you really understand what you are asking for?.


    Every threat, comment ,declaration or any other statement about a second independence referendum in Scotland declared by Sturgeon is only being made to support her almost manic desire to become the first president of an independent Scotland ( supported by the loser Salmond ) The sooner the Scot's realise this the sooner the silly woman will be joining the dole queue. True decent Scottish folks need to get rid of Sturgeon before this yappy little dog does anymore damage. No one will want to trade with you as you will all be tard with the same brush, incompetent and hateful.

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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:25 am

    And now an important backer of Jeremy Osborne, Paul Mason of Channel 4, is saying that Kezia Dugdale, ( The Scottish Labour leader and OUT supporter ), should be dumped so that the Scottish party can get behind the SNP to ensure that the next independence vote is successful.

    I am sure that if Labour in Scotland can organise itself to support an Indy vote up here the chance of it being successful this time will be greatly improved.

    Scotland has historically been a Labour supporting country and once we DO get independence we may find that it will return to this previous situation, and then the pro-EU supporters can get together and re-connect Scotland with Europe in the best ways possible.

    HERE is the quote from The Scottish Daily Record.




    While I am sure that a lot of previously Labour supporters - just like me - voted YES in the last Indy referendum I think that many more will do it too if the Scottish leader and the Westminster leader can actually and publicly get together and say that they support Scottish "home rule".


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:56 pm

    Hi All,

    Well, I admire your persistence in wanting to join the failing EU, and in wanting to go indepoendent, but I have a feeling it aint going to happen.

    Once the Scottish people realise the dogs dinner they are going to be served by the 'remain fanatics' they will have no stomach for it. The two big issues to swing this will be uncontrolled immigration ( a damn good excuse to rebuild Hadrians Wall If I ever heard one ! ), but more importaantly the astronomical tax rises you wil need to pay for it all.

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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:10 am

    Once we, ( Scotland ), are back in the EU under our own conditions we will be happy to accept many immigrants as refugees as these people already help to make Scotland a successful country.

    Of course, unlike the UK government, we will have a sensible immigrant policy to ensure that "uncontrolled" immigration does not occur.

    UPDATE on the vote:

    Yesterday Theresa May changed her mind and said that she would allow a debate and a vote on what she plans for the triggering of article 50.

    Her problem is going to be that it will be difficult for her to find consensus in the parliament before it finally goes to a vote.

    One thing she will find particularly hard to push through will be a "hard" Brexit.


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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 2:06 pm

    Hi all,

    Saw that Paps, again. its going to cause major problems as if she goes against the wishes of the public in this. Goodness knows what will happen.

    I again admire your 'dream' of controlled immigration in a free Scotland. That will not happen with the SNP calling the shots. The public services in the UK are under an all time massive strain, fueled by uncotrolled immigration. Why do you think Scotland is such a special case ?. The economy is in ths pits, and any advantages of immigration will very soon be lost by the sheer numbers the SNP envisage coming to Scotland !. That is the MAIN reason the public in the UK voted OUT !.

    Common sense should tell you trouble is brewing all over the Euro Zone as major economies within the Euro are suffering ( ask the Spanish and Greeks ! ). You would already be starting from a major dissadvantage .

    Also, tell me in all honesty that your tax burden would NOT rise substatialy, and your social services not be put under intollerable strain ?. Just how do the SNP intend to pay for all this. Its fantasy economics and most people are not stupid enough to fall for it. Here are two reports. The first one I find very sad. Germany is a great country and has been a backbone in economic prudence, but look at the mess now:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/722697/Deutsche-Bank-collapse-Germany-European-Union

    And here, as it seems even the Yanks are getting p*ssed off with 'Nicola Queen of Scotts' rantings:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/722430/Nicola-Sturgeon-slapped-down-by-America-and-tells-her-to-RESPECT-the-will-of-the-people

    You could not make it up !

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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 11:51 am

    I think you are reading the negative stories about Scotland and none of the positive ones.

    Here is a headline yesterday about Scotland: "Scotland's unemployment figures fell again".

    Unemployment in Scotland fell by 25,000 over the summer, according to the latest official figures.
    The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the rate between June and August had fallen to 4.6%, below the figure for the UK as a whole at 4.9%.

    Find the full story from The BBC HERE




    Again, reading selectively it is fairly easy to find negative reports about Scotland from America as we have our detractors from the right wings in American politics just as we have over here.

    The fact is that while we wait for some years for the final exit from Europe we have to at least try to make friends in the EU so that we can use our own friend's influence over there when we are looking for a new deal after the successful independence vote and Scotland becomes responsible for who it teams up with without further interference from Westminster.

    I always said that the EU was in dire need of modernisation and repair as many of the flaws there, including the unelected cabal in Brussels, needs scrapping and a new democratic body put in it's place.

    As a full member of the EU once again Scotland will be able to try to help to sort out these glaring flaws while Britain will, by that time, just be able to watch from over the English channel what goes on in a reformed EU.

    Once out, there will be no going back for the "UK" but as Scotland never voted to leave in the first place I see few problems with getting back our own membership of the EU.

    You asked why Scotland wants the immigrants from Europe, and I say that because we have the space here and the desire to do what we can about placing the refugees in safety we CAN accept a high number of incomers to our country.

    This does not mean that we will accept unrestricted numbers, as we can learn from what happened in Germany after they unconditionally opened their arms to all who wanted to come.

    We will probably use the points system that is successful in Australia and Canada, and once we know how many we have we will know how many we can still take.

    It is just common sense really, which the Westminster government seems to lack.


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    Brexit etc

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Thu 20 Oct 2016, 2:42 pm

    Hi all,

    Well, Best of luck with that then !. Again Paps I admire your tenacity, we do not agree on this one, so best leave it. I hope it works out OK for the people of Scotland if you DO go it alone, but my gut feeling says it just is not going to happen that way !

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    Re: No vote on Brexit withdrawal.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 11:50 am

    Your pal Nicola Sturgeon is hoping that nearer the time of the full break from Europe the large numbers of people who might not be normal SNP supporters an who voted to remain in Scotland in the big IN/OUT UK referendum will join forces with the people who voted YES in the last independence referendum.

    These groups together, and not having the fearties that were frightened off voting YES by the nasty fear campaign of the right-wing at that time, and seeing what damage is being done to Scotland during the painful and long drawn-out Brexit actions, I am sure that the independence vote will be a massive win this time for independence.


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