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    Grammar schools are back

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    Gandhi
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    Grammar schools are back

    Post by Gandhi on Tue 09 Aug 2016, 8:03 am

    In a move likely to boost the Conservatives popularity Theresa May has decided to look at abolishing the ban on Grammar Schools introduced by the failed Tony Bliar.

    Whilst not the same as re-imtroducing selection, at least it allows the parents to decide once more instead of being forced to take what is on offer from the politicians, which can only be a good thing imho

    What do you guys think?

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    papa_umau
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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 09 Aug 2016, 11:13 am

    If grammar schools are brought back that are based on the also-failed eleven plus system of segregation then we will be right back to educational apartheid once again.

    The Tories might like that but very few others in Britain would support this move.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by Gandhi on Thu 11 Aug 2016, 7:07 pm

    I think you would be surprised - Where grammar schools exist they are oversubscribed which suggests they are popular in those areas at least.

    The point you miss (read my post again) is that I am not suggesting 'educational apartheid' be brought back, but that parents at least be given the choice if they want them. Currently we have an educational dictatorship' the only way out of which is private/public schools

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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 11:22 am

    You are also missing the point, as when kids are channelled down two different routes of education that can only be called educational apartheid.

    The "choice" that you talk about is actually Hobson's choice as wherever the grammar schools or the Academies - as they are called - pop up it is always at the expense of the loss of comprehensive education.

    When there is never a choice of EITHER of these systems then the local parents have to take what is available in their catchment zone and like it or lump it.

    The Tories will do anything they can to try to privatise our education system and these are just two ways of doing it.


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    zathrus
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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by zathrus on Fri 12 Aug 2016, 11:41 am

    It is probably true that in some areas, the toffee-nosed ones, the Grammar schools will be more acceptable.

    The attempt to give all of the levels of our society the same basic schooling by introducing comprehensive education removed the stigma of being classed as bright or stupid, as in the Grammar school and the eleven-plus qualification system.

    I have always thought that education should be free at the point of need to all types of children and if the rich want their Grammar schools or even any form of private education let them pay for it.
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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 13 Aug 2016, 12:04 pm

    Yes Zath, Grammar schools is very much a Tory ethic as the Tory types seem to like that their kids are channelled into a smart stream while the the hoy polloy have to settle with a non-academic technical stream.

    It happened to me and that is why and how I know about this.


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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by Hell's Granny on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 1:41 pm

    I don't mind the theory, but there should be a better system of selection than the 11+.
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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 12:14 pm

    Because there are varying degrees of academic ability in all of the children, separating them with a blunt axe is just not good enough.

    It's a fall-back to the old class systems and it should not be allowed to come back.

    Even although it too is flawed, the comprehensive system is much better for ensuring that those can learn all get a chance to do just that.


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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Mon 15 Aug 2016, 3:06 pm

    Hi All,

    Don't agree, but I am not against them either ( I never went to one, but managed to get my qualifications ). Grammar schools have been here for hundreds of years. Quite happy to see them. We need a little competition in this country, everyone has gone soft I think.

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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:37 am

    I do get your point Technician, but I have always thought that if the taxpayers are going to pay for it, it should be comprehensive education.

    Separating kids at such a young age by the use of the crude eleven plus exam system simply creates two tiers of education that are not giving either tier a fair chance at the right qualifications.

    Few people know that the elitist grammar schools and the so-called "academies" are still paid for by government subsidy.

    I don't mind the "competition" that is created between the private schools and the state schools, but even here we see government subsidies going towards educating the rich.


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    Gandhi
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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by Gandhi on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 7:57 am

    Streaming improves performance as all classes move at the pace of the slowest pupil. No wonder we are being overtaken by the East - they haven't bought the sob stories of the loony left.

    Jeremy Corbyn went to a Grammar School
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    Re: Grammar schools are back

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 11:23 am

    That is just plain ridiculous Gandhi as in Grammar schools the brightest get the best education and the rest are fighting to catch up for their whole school-life.

    I went to a Grammar school but as I was chosen to not go down the academic path I was forced to go down the technical path. While I thrived at woodwork, metalwork, technical drawing, and mechanics, and was chosen by my first employer to get a joiner apprenticeship because of my high marks on these technical grades, I was very disappointed at not getting academic English and foreign languages.

    I have had to educate myself after leaving school in the academic subjects that I missed.

    No mate, educational apartheid, was a crude and blunt tool that allowed some bright kids to get educated to a higher degree, but a lot of other bright kids were thrown onto the educational rubbish pile.


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