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    Crisis in the EU ?

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    Nuthin fancy
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    Crisis in the EU ?

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 9:25 am

    Hi All,

    I don't need on this site to explain why I am clearly with the OUT campaign, but I am concerned in general about the way Europe is dealing with the refugee crisis. It has been mooted today that the EU 'politicians' are on the point of tearing chunks out of each other in their disagreements about what to do with the tide of humanity flocking to our borders.

    I always said that any vote in the UK would be influenced by immigration. It appears now that in Greece tensions have boiled over and refugees are being tear gassed as they tear down fences, the same in Macedonia.
    Tear gas is also being deployed at the massive Calais camp where tensions are leading to increasing violence. The picture is becoming very bleak. In those towns in Germany where there is a predominance of refugees there have been riots and fire bombings of the camps, and growth of right wing extremist factions. Finland has seen its migrant applications increase 6 fold, and its prime minister has called the mass migration 'a threat to European values'. Hungary meanwhile has authorised the construction of a 280 mile long razor wire fence along its borders

    Merkel has been told the chaos this will cause, and the massive financial strain it is inflicting upon the German economy and in particular healthcare. She is ignoring it and keeping to her open door policy. Austria has a said enough is enough and has resticted entry to 80 migrants per day.

    Here in the UK Cameron is desperate to get the referendum over before the crisis blows up in his face.

    We find that on top of over 50 millon per day we pay the EU we have spent nearly 900 million on giving out benefits to these people when they are in the UK. We have spent more in propping up the EU than is required to END the austerity cuts in our own country. We find in the news that there is concern over secondary school places all over the UK ( we don't have sufficient )...WHY??. Could it be, like the strain on ALL our infrastructure and social services that we just have too many people flooding into this little island ?

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    Re: Crisis in the EU ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 11:42 am

    I cannot disagree with you that Europe and Britain are suffering from the refugees from the middle-East war-zones, and neither can I disagree that the super "Shengen" ( open borders ), signatories are now shutting down their borders to stop this terrible flow of displaced persons getting into and through their countries.

    It is hard to actually describe this crisis but as we see it every day on the TV news programmes I doubt that few people do not know about or feel for the Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis as they try to escape death.

    In particular, I am sure that the plight of the children gets through to us more than anything else as we see them drowning in escape boats or sitting huddled and frozen in the groups that are trying to make this awful journey to warmth, clean water, enough food and safety.

    We all have to remember that this horror has nothing to do with the EU and that once it has been sorted out, ( which might take some time ), we are going to fall back on the problems with immigration and asylum that has always been there.

    THIS long-term problem is the problem we should be considering when we start to think about voting for pulling out of Europe and we must know that the temporary situation that is in our faces at the moment will eventually go away.

    This situation is nothing whatsoever to do with the EU in peace-time.


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    Re: Crisis in the EU ?

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Tue 01 Mar 2016, 4:55 pm

    Hi all,

    Well Paps I am glad you agree withg some of that !. Some problems though, you talk of 'peace time'. The EU has been threatened with 'Global Jihad', and as I write British planes are bombing ISIS targets, Syria can quite easliy, along with Putins Russia be a catalyst for a global conflict very quickly. The EU has not CAUSED this, but neither has it been the protector of peace. The has been NATO....some peacetime !

    I also agree that it will 'pass in time'. So will everything, and yes, it will stop, but at what price ?. Before that occurs the way the situation is going we will not be able to recognise what is left of 'Britian' any more. Our whole culture and way of life could well be consumed and destroyed by this free 'multiculturalism'

    No one wishes to see starving children and desperate families fleeing from the despots ( in their own countries ), but they have a choice. Many of the 'young' people could stay and fight, to reclaim their own land and freedom, but they dont they run.

    We have a choice in Britain before it is overwhelmed. We need to get back our country before its too late ( I think that is what Scotland had a referendum about was it not, freedom from control from the rest of the UK ??)...

    So why the hell do you want to give control to a dysfunctional, failing EU that is too weak and frightened to deal with a threat on its doorstep. You will not get democracy Paps you will get subservience!.

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    Re: Crisis in the EU ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 11:00 am

    As usual, you are mostly right again Technician, but the point I cannot get away from is that when the vote comes in June we will STILL be embedded in the war-refugees problem and with that problem still at large, the British Brexit voters are not going to be voting on Europe as it naturally is.

    If that vote was to wait until it would be considered by thinking about the usual anomalies, as far as Britain is concerned, the LEAVE Europe vote would be easily lost.

    Of course, that does not mean that the EU is not broken in many places and needs fixing, but like many other Tories, like Cameron and his followers, they are asking that we STAY in so that we can fix it properly from inside as we will certainly not be able to fix anything in Europe from the outside.

    I surprise myself that I am actually going with Cameron on this one, as by rights I should be condemning him for his stance, if he was truly acting like a hard-line Tory.

    He is not, and he is showing thoughtful reasoning here, unlike many of the people that will vote for out because of instinctive and xenophobic reasons.


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    Re: Crisis in the EU ?

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 11:13 am

    Hi All,

    Yeah, I too am surprised you are going with Cameron on this one !!!.

    That said its so refreshing to be allowed to have a sensible debate on this issue. Its of vital importance to me, so if people on this site can disagree and debate in a sensible manner perhaps our politicians need to read what is going on here more !!.

    I don't want to labour the point about all this though, as its going to be one hell of a boring slog before June if we do.

    On point though, what about poor Greece ??. One EU mandarin suggested 'leaving them to be a massive refugee camp'.

    That's a terrible thing to say about a country which has gone through economic hell and bullying by the EU and World bank. In some ways the Greeks have been the causes of a lot of their own misfortune. The tax system is crazy, and its a national pastime avoiding it.

    That said they certainly cannot cope with the over 2,000 migrants landing on their shores every day. As for tourism I suspect a lot of people will not now be going to Greece for their holidays which is another kick in the teeth for their economy. Something has to give in the EU or there will be civil unrest of massive proportions.

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    Re: Crisis in the EU ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 11:22 am

    Boy, you are on the ball today Technican.

    I also agree, ( going to have to stop doing that Smile ), that what is happening to Greece is terrible.

    Europe is in such an awful state over the the influx of war refugees that most of the members are now shutting the gates so that they do not finish up like Greece.

    I honestly do not know what the early answer to this is as people much smarter than I am are stymied here.


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