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    What's wrong with the EU

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    papa_umau
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    What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 11 Dec 2015, 11:44 am

    Thanks for that thoughtful response to Zathrus's post Technician.

    I think it is just the old story all over again as we see world politics swinging from the left to the right and back again.

    We always find the right wing gaining support when anger replaces considered thought, and at this time we have lots of things to get angry about.

    I know one thing that is for sure, and that is if I have to get radical in my politics I would far rather move to the radical left than the radical right.

    I saw a picture in the paper yesterday that highlighted this way of thinking: It was of an American family of eight adults, two children and three babies and all except the babies were holding guns and wishing everybody a merry Christmas. This, just after yet another mass shooting in yet another place of education.

    HERE is a report from The Guardian on America's crazy gun culture.

    "1,052 mass shootings in 1,066 days: this is what America's gun crisis looks like"

    I think we will find that almost to a man or woman these pro-gun people are Republicans and right wingers.

    Do we want that kind politics here in Britain ?

    I don't think we do !


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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by Hell's Granny on Fri 11 Dec 2015, 2:13 pm

    I'm not against immigration, but I am worried about where these folk will live. The Government is Still not investing in Social Housing, and most of these folk will be destitute, having used all their money buying their passages.

    There are millions of folk in Britain who will never be able to afford to own a house already. Adding more homeless is silly, but does the Government see this? Of course not. The Government is playing ostrich and not seeing what is in front of their eyes.
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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 12:27 pm

    I suppose they are trying to do what is right as far as helping the war refugees is concerned, but I think that the greatest majority of Brits would much rather that this charity was to begin at home.

    A difficult one, my dear.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 3:20 pm

    Hi All,

    Quite right Paps, charity should begin at home. That includes stopping all that foreign aid that is sent to African and other 3rd world despots and cranky causes. Problem with this European crisis is we have NO idea who we are letting in, as we cannot control them.

    Merkel had the brainwave to be 'humanitarian' ( partly I think in resonse to Germany's previous persecutions and the stain on the national consciousness ) but she has opened a massive can of worms. She faces rebelion at home, and this the most powerfull woman perhaps in the world who WAS 'teflon coated'

    Not only does she risk the wrath of the German people she potentialy is heading the country towards bankrupcy ( I MILLION have enterd Germany this year alone ). it is this issue that the EU cannot handle, and it is that which will ultimately lead to a break up of this toxic club and allow countries mired by the fiscal and draconian policies to be set free again. ( Oh, and that is BEFORE we have another run on the Euro and Greece once again going bottoms up )

    The public in this country can see this a mile off. Cameron is s**ting himself becaus the EU fat cats won't play ball and agree to his proposed 'reforms'. Immigration is the key, and despite the slating of Nigel Farage and UKIP on here every word he has said has been true so far. On a personal note I dread the future. I don't think at anytime in my life have I seen the world in such a state or felt so unsafe in my own country.

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 13 Dec 2015, 11:30 am

    Sadly, I think you are right about that "not-safe" feeling as there are always going to be individual Islamic extreme "zealots" willing to die in order to murder innocents with a vest-bomb - just about anywhere.

    The British bombing in Syria is not only not going to reduce this risk, it is going to increase it.

    I am not against sending aid to third world countries so long as we know where the money is going and our own needs are financed first.


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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 13 Dec 2015, 12:01 pm

    I have that worry in the back of my mind every time I go into a public place and I wonder if I will ever get rid of that feeling.

    My answer is to try terrorising the terrorists as I bet they would not like it if the tables were turned.

    Can I ask one question here: Why is it that the peace-loving Muslims all around the world do not come out hard, and even fight these murderers themselves ?

    Sorry if I inadvertently went off-topic with the "comb-over king" thread. Neutral
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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 13 Dec 2015, 4:11 pm

    Hi all,

    Angie, that is a question I have asked myself !!. Trump while roundly criticised for the stupid comment has seen donations to his presidential fund soar with a swell of popular support, and he has still spent ( his OWN money by the way, not tax payers ) far less that the other runners ( Jed Bush, the Florida golden boy has spent billions by the way and has not a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere ! ).

    I think a lot of people ask that question. Look at the migrant mix. There are many many young Muslim men in trainers and with smart phones ( who pays for all that then if they are 'destitute' ) if they are so concerned about their own country they should go back and fight for the freedoms they so desire...

    Some of it is mindset, for instance one 'hate preacher' peddling his crap in Britain said that 'every Muslim shouild be a terrorist'. Ask yourself this, why was he and the other nutters spouting such evil not arrested or deported, or a petition stated to 'ban then from the UK' ?.

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 14 Dec 2015, 11:34 am

    I think that hate-filled religious extremists like that are just taking advantage of our freedom of speech tenets.

    They would not get that freedom if they went back to their own countries and spoke out against the religious laws there.


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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by Gandhi on Mon 21 Dec 2015, 12:31 pm

    Trump has never had a good following in Scotland since his golf course shenanigans so the petition I take with a large pinch of salt.

    He has voiced a concern that many of us have and should be applauded for doing so. It is not racist - if people cannot accept the way of life of the country they choose to live in then they should be turned away. Since the Syrian escalation it will not be long before there is an atrocity here and when it happens dont be surprised if we bring back internment. It helped us in ww2 and as we are at war now will help us again

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 22 Dec 2015, 11:40 am

    Internment was only every a short term stop-gap and even if the Americans kept it going for years in Gitmo and we did it recently ourselves in Northern Ireland with Long Kesh, denying anybody the right to a fair trial BEFORE being imprisoned has to be wrong however we look at it.

    AND...racists often don't know they are racist until they have their racist behaviour pointed out to them.

    It's a bit like being an alcoholic or a drug addict, as they too often don't realise they are what they are until someone tells them so.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 12:02 am

    Hi all,

    Got to agree with Ghandi here, the racist card is pulled out these days over nearly everything. The opportunity for free speach is being eroded faster than driven snow in this country.

    Of course part of that is due to the EU and the politicaly correct 'Euro Luvvies. There is nothing racist about being concerned with over 1 million immigrants entering the EU in this year alone, nor the incresingly violent and nasty goings on at Calais where many 'young men of dubious intent' are hell bent on getting to Britian. Then, when s**it does it the fan, as it will, sooner or later we wonder why its happened !!

    As I have said time again, the EU referndum will be won or lost on the immigration issue. On a personal level I am in favour of shutting our borders to stop all and sundry entering this country. Its got to stop simply because we neither have the room, services of infrastructure to suppoprt these people. Likewise the governemnt don't give a toss for the harworking people paying taxes and trying to do the right thing. No wonder there is resentment when migrants 'jump the que and get all these 'freebies' and benefits.

    I hope sincerely that the people of this country have the sense to ditch the EU so we can take back control of our borders, but the way Cameron and his cronies manipulate the odds I would not like to bet on it.

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 11:15 am

    I think that day-by-day more-and-more people are realising that Britain pulling totally out of Europe would be a completely bad thing to do.

    Even Cameron, who is a hostage to the idea, doesn't want to do it but is going to be forced to offer a referendum, just like he promised, even if that referendum, and it's result, will mean his destruction in British politics due to the massive rip that is coming down the Tory party over this subject.

    I, and many millions of other Brits, would far rather see an agreement on immigration and on the fixing of the flaws in the EC sorted before we should even consider the choice of pulling out of partnership with our nearest neighbours in Europe.

    This IS going to come to a head soon, with the referendum, and then it might be too late to avert this possible disaster from happening.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Thu 24 Dec 2015, 11:04 am

    Hi All,

    Well Paps, forgive me but I had to smile at that !. I am sure your intentiions are very honourable but you fail to grasp that the EU is an institution which CANNOT and WILL NOT be reformed.

    Its no good thinking we will be fine in a reformed EU because its not going to happen. Cameron is playing lip service and will if ANTHING be fed scaps.

    For as long as we remain in that institution we will have NO SAY on our border controls, and we will be unable to stop mass immigration. To be logical about this consider the effect of this mass exodus. The UK cannot cope now ( Oh, and Scotland is still part of the UK. However should we leave the EU I think that would be the trigger for the SNP to push for their independence vote again ) The SNP have this strange notion that if 'England and Wales' left the EU then they would automaticaly join, but they have not been given the green light and would need to apply.

    Whichever way, once you are 'in' you would have no control of your borders. The situation the little island of Bute has found itself in would be magnified hundreds of times. I predict you would have a very pi**ed off population very soon. Your taxes would skyrocket and your oil revenues ( what is left of them ! ) be decdimated. Should 'GB' continue on with the same we will reach unfortunately a situation in which civil unrest will develop as services are more and more streched, and the voice of a disenfranchised population is being ignored. 2016 is going to be a monumanental year I feel, it will be make or break time.

    No rational person wants conflict, war or unrest of any kind but I fear if we contuinus on this mad path that is our future.

    Now on that happy note can I take this opportunity to wish all at ROB a very good Xmas and New Year, along with everyone who has taken the time to read and appreciate (or otherwise) my rantings !!!

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 24 Dec 2015, 12:05 pm

    I don't think you realise that we are NOT at the heart of the EU yet and we never will be until we lose the negativity and call Germany France Spain and the other biggies as our equal partners within the EC.

    Most of what is wrong in the EU is right in the heart of theEuropean Commission where the real power is and only when we become a major power inside this body will we ever start to correct the flaws in the European Union.

    Once we are out and are treated like lepers by the 27 member countries still remaining inside we will finally realise that pulling out was a really damaging thing to do.

    When British exporting companies start to fail and the CBI becomes enemies to the Tories we will then really see the damage that will have been done.

    "TOO LATE" will be the cry.


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    TOPIC HAS BEEN SPLIT FROM Comb-over king topic.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 24 Dec 2015, 12:16 pm

    As this original topic has been filled up with mostly discussion on Europe I felt that it was right to split it between a new topic called What's wrong with Europe and the Comb-over King topic.

    I did this within my power as a Moderator.


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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by zathrus on Thu 24 Dec 2015, 12:32 pm

    Surely the 73 MEPs that we have in the EU can do more than they have already done.

    If we pull out that membership influence will no longer exist and we will then just have to take what we get from Europe.
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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Thu 24 Dec 2015, 3:59 pm

    Hi All,


    Paps, that simply will not happen...if we carry on the way we are, then we are up sh*t creek withouyt a paddle

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 11:53 am

    The greatest influences on the EU and the EC come from the major players that are at it's heart.

    Those members are Germany, France and Spain and as we are not even a full member at the moment because we are not signatories to the Economic Monetary Union, or EMU, we are NOT at the centre of this organisation and never will be until we actually become a FULL member and start to influence the rules in Europe that are bad for Britain.

    Running away from this massive trading bloc would not only be cowardly but it would be bad for business.

    Don't take my word for it, ask the CBI.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 8:35 pm

    Hi All,

    Well Paps this is just something we will have to disagree upon!!. We will NOT get any meaningful concessions, and yes, Germany is at the heart of all this. Teflon Merkel is still in power; while that dream and perfectly creditable idea of a unified Europe is becoming a gross burden around members necks, as soverighnty and economic freedom becomes secondary to a pipe dream pursued by incompetent bumblers who could not organise a p*ss up in a brewery.

    This situation is only set to get worse. The twin nightmares of the busted Euro and mass immigration will not go away. Despite what we say, or think, in the long run this institution will self implode. Populations and countries will take back their own destiny. How long this takes it does not matter, but in the end ( and I am not one for predictions !! ) it will come to pass.

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 3:46 pm

    As one who likes to imagine what might happen in the future I can see the European Union keeping growing until it eventually becomes a United States of Europe and if we are not part of that set of United States we will be left out in the cold and floating in the Atlantic in a leaky boat.

    I have always believed that creating something that is amazing out of small and insignificant things on their own is exactly what has happened in Europe.

    I also believe, even although I probably won't live to see it, that Europe will eventually become a Federal State that will be the largest trading and security bloc in the world outside of China, India, America, Russia and eventually the South American and South African States.

    If this happens and we have not become a partner with any one of those super-states we will become a nonentity that just sits out in the water shaking it's handbag at imaginary dangers lurking in the dark.

    "Great"Britain was once the most powerful empire on the face of the planet, but that is now all gone all except for a few deluded fools that think it can be great again on it's own.


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    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:24 pm

    Hi All,

    Well, there you are!!. One of us will be wrong...I hope I DONT live to see a United States of Europe..The UK is just fine on its own, but its not alone, as already we do more trade with the rest of the world than with the EU!!!

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 1:19 pm

    Yes Technician we DO trade with the rest of the world as well as with Europe but if we pull out of Europe you can bet your boots that we will be punished for this by losing almost all of the trade we presently have with the EU.

    That loss would be incalculable and we won't know just how bad it will be until after we pull out and by then it will too late to get back in again.

    This is a risk that the get-out people are just not prepared to think about.

    The CBI knows all too well about it and they are trying like bears to influence their pals in the Tory government about this truth.


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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

    Post by Angie baby on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 1:34 pm

    It's not as simple and straight forward as UKIP would have us believe it is, is it ?

    If I thought that UKIP was not full of xenophobes and Euro-haters I might believe in them.

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    Re: What's wrong with the EU

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