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    Its starting already !

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    Its starting already !

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 10 May 2015, 8:59 am


    To quote:


    'A dramatic split between Scottish Nationalist leaders Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond opened yesterday over whether Scotland should remain part of the UK. Former SNP leader Salmond, who won a Commons seat on Thursday, claimed the party's General Election landslide has moved Britain closer to a break-up. But Ms Sturgeon appeared to contradict him, by pledging that the 56 SNP MPs who won seats last week would not seek to drive a wedge between England and Scotland'.

    Well lets hope 'Call me Dave' starts to devolve as much power as possible to Scotland. Once the folks over the border have to raise their own taxes and fend for themselves then the light will come on and the promises of Nicola and El Salmondo will not seem as inviting. Clever though, as Nicola and her crew are desperate for the rest of the country to loose patience with them, and in that way hasten their move to independence. The Roman Army was way ahead of its time when it built that wall. They went north and did not like what they saw. Looks like history repeats itself.

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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 10 May 2015, 12:52 pm

    I think that "spat" between Sturgeon and Salmond was done just for the media as both Salmond and Sturgeon know that if "devo-max" is not given to Scotland there WILL be an argument for considering another referendum up here.

    This will be for far in the future as there is too much work to be done by the SNP in Westminster for that to become a distraction.

    There is no doubt that Salmond will be vying for the leadership in Westminster and Nicola Sturgeon will not be one bit surprised by that.

    I am sure that eventually Scotland will become independent from The English union, but there is plenty of time for that to happen.


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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 10 May 2015, 1:17 pm

    Yes peeps it is going to be interesting to see how the SNP cabal shapes up in the future as we are going to have to see shadow ministers as well as a leader elected to speak for specific areas.

    If those fifty-six votes are used strategically we may see a large thorn being created that could be stuck in Cameron's side.

    The Labour members and the SNP members are going to have to get their heads together to present a formidable opposition.

    I am quite excited about the fun that is going to be happening down there, especially at PM's question-time.
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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 10 May 2015, 8:22 pm

    The sheer arrogance of this woman is unbeleivable !!!!!

    Quote:

    Scotlands First Minister suggested another vote on independence could be 'triggered as early as 2017 if Britain votes to leave the European Union against Scotland's will'.
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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 11 May 2015, 12:07 pm

    She is only speaking for the now swollen 45% that voted for independence.

    I can understand that Sturgeon might use the in/out of Europe vote to trigger another independence referendum, as Scotland - in the main - has always wanted to stay in Europe.

    If the vote is for OUT then she has no choice but to bring another Scottish freedom referendum immediately.

    That's not "arrogance", that is just being a good leader.


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    Scottish Referendum

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Mon 11 May 2015, 6:42 pm

    Hi Paps,

    WHY has Nicola Sturgeon no choice but to call for a referendum if the UK votes for leaving the EU ???. Scotland may want to stay in, but as Salmond found out there is no guarantee that Scotland will be granted admission as a right. They would in all probability need to apply. I think you will find, as we found before that the issue will be so divisive that the s***t will hit the fan.

    Firstly, don't be too sure that you will win this second time again, as you must admit that even a large proportion of people who voted for Sturgeon still don't like the idea of Scottish independence. I hope 'Call me Dave' calls her bluff and gives as much devolution as possible to Scotland. Once your taxes start going up, the freebies stop and the oil dries up you will all be deeply in it.

    By that time big business will have left in droves. The way the SNP want to spend and spend ( money they have not got, by the way ) they should have written their manifesto in Greek!!!

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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 12 May 2015, 11:14 am

    Most amusing Technician lol!

    Why I said that Sturgeon will be forced to apply for another referendum is because if the "Union" pulls out against Scotland's wishes there will be a great argument for going it alone.

    Of course you are right that there is no guarantee that the SNP may get over 50% of the Scottish population to vote to get out of the union next time, but the amount of votes that Sturgeon would need to do this is just six percent on what they had before.

    The fear tactics that the Tory and Labour cabal used in their "Better Together" campaign will not work now as the people of Scotland now know that with the wipe out of the Tories, the Labourites and the Lib Dems in Scotland at the general election, the indication is that the independence voters might easily produce over a fifty percent vote next time.

    The people in Scotland like being in Europe, they like having immigrants coming here and they like the idea of not being dictated to by London any more, and those are the reasons why we would never vote yes to coming out of Europe.

    It is certainly going to be an interesting next few years of British politics with 56 SNP members in the Westminster parliament.


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    SNP etc

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sat 16 May 2015, 9:29 am

    High all,

    David Cameron has said he is "happy" to consider SNP proposals for devolution powers for Scotland beyond those put forward by the Smith commission. to quote: "I promised to implement it in full and there will be a Scotland bill in the first Queen's Speech. It gives massive tax and spending powers to the Scottish Parliament. So if Scotland wants to take a different path, for instance, raise more taxes and spend more money, it will be able to."

    Great stuff....I would give em even more, then watch the tax rises. Of course if UKIP had got in by a fair vote (they got more votes than the SNP and all the minor parties combined ) there would have been a complete review of the Barnett Formula which is skewed towards Scotland and we here in England would not be paying through our noses to support the likes of Salmond and his crew.

    Once again pushing his luck Salmond said there could be a vote on independence even if not agreed by the government (illegal by the way), but 'Call me Dave' has made it clear there will be no vote in his parliament...Makes for an 'interesting future'

    By the way, any thoughts on the barmy idea from Sturgeon that she wants to expand the SNP vote (influence) to include a vast swathe of the North of England ( under the new 'map' my little town would be bang in the middle of this 'zone' !!! )

    'Thought of the day'......If Nicola Sturgeon ate caviar would it be a form of cannibalism ?
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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 16 May 2015, 12:06 pm

    Quips aside this time, I think that Cameron is in a very unenviable situation as he wants to try to keep the "56" happy.

    He is well aware that if by his hand and an in/out vote over Europe, Britain pulls out of the EU, Scotland has good reason to do the same with the so-called "union" if we do not agree with that act.

    In otherwords, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and Cameron knows this only too well.

    He has already tried to pull back on the "Devo-Max that was offered in place of independence and our Nicola is smart and capable enough to squeeze his gonads until he gives us what we want along these lines.

    If he does not widen devolution far enough he is going to be fighting on two fronts with his Tory backbenchers behind him and the "56" and their allies in front of him.

    Remember what happened to Hitler when he tried to fight on two fronts.


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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 16 May 2015, 1:14 pm

    BTW, Angus Robertson remains as the leader of the SNP in Westminster.

    He has been the Westminster leader since 2007 and I do not think that Salmond is in any position to take this leadership from him.

    That idea of Sturgeon to "include the people in the North of England" in her group of friends is a very astute idea as she knows that the people of the North, of which I am one, do see some attractive thoughts in the idea of Scottish independence.

    Many of the people of North of the Watford Gap have been thinking about their own government autonomy for a few years and becoming an ally of Sturgeon and the Scots is not far from what they/we would call sensible.
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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 17 May 2015, 12:38 pm

    Yes Angie, it is true that many of the Northerners are a bit jealous of the power that Scotland now has because of devolution, and that is why they see an alignment with Scotland as a good thing.

    I honestly think that Cameron is going to be put under a lot of pressure in the future to devolve a lot of the power that Westminster now holds for the North.

    Something else which will be interesting to watch.

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    As far as Scotland not getting automatic membership into the EU is concerned; I do think that the EU, led by Germany, are going to be delighted that Scotland might want to stay in Europe while the rest of the country wants to pull out, as they know that we can emulate and even better many of the smaller states that are already full members of the EU.


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    Starting already

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Sun 17 May 2015, 4:26 pm

    Hi all,

    Well Paps, perhaps they will be delighted, but I think the rules are that you will need to make a formal application. This may not be any great deal if you go it alone. One thing is for sure, you will continue to support an organisation which the auditors have refused to sign off the books for over 13 years. You are more than welcome to be slaves to the EMF and European Bank, perhaps you may even be a 'little Greece'. To be realistic though, where do the SNP arrive at their 'fantasy' economic policy ?

    I think most people would be 100% behind the idea of 'anti austerity', I certainly am, but as in my personal finances I cannot spend what I don't have, nor earn. That is a road to ruin. When , and IF you go it alone and join the EU ask yourself how much of your hard earned taxes will be used to pay for it, along with all the other fantasy spending by the SNP. Sounds all 'light and love' over the border. History shows a different picture. The infamous Darien Scheme was the last and most ambitious venture of an independent Scotland. Its failure cast a gloom over the country for years.

    Between 1603 and 1707, Scotland and England shared a monarch, but remained nominally independent countries. England, however, was the dominant partner. It was larger and richer just as it is today. Under the Darien Scheme a Scottish Colony was to be set up in Panama. Up to a third of the nations liquid assets its cash was put into the enterprise. All over the country, men borrowed what they could to invest....and guess what they sent to trade with?????, Scottish woolens !!!!!. In the middle of the ruddy Panama Jungle.. Errr????? The whole scheme ( if you read the history ) was a disaster.

    The nation seems to be sleep-walking out of the Union and doing so even though the premise on which the SNP based its assumptions as recently as a year ago is alas, like the grand Darien Scheme riddled with holes. the SNP is committed to higher spending on all public services without the means of promoting the prosperity and increasing the wealth on which that spending depends. Nationalist Scotland will therefore be a high-tax, low-growth country. Enterprise and profits will be dirty words. The Government will have to finance its structural deficit by borrowing, probably at a high rate of interest. It will be hard to attract inward investment. Gradually, Scotland will sink into socialist squalor......Best of luck.

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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 18 May 2015, 12:27 pm

    I have to agree that going it alone in Scotland will be a struggle if we cannot get enough work and the oil industry shrinks any more, but the ability to govern ourselves has never been in question.

    If by following the rules by rote we have to re-apply for EU membership I am certain that we will be welcomed with open arms by the EU and the EC. Angela Merkel has said as much already.

    All that said, I am also sure that not all is well in the EU and a lot is going to have to be done to make it into a going concern for all of it's members.

    I am sure that the knowledge that the Scots membership will bring will help in this task.

    Cameron has said that he will stay in until he can get a better deal for Britain, but he is under terrible pressure from his own back-benchers and from the UKIP members and friends in and out of the party to get out now.

    I can see him being forced to put forward an in/out referendum and if he does there will be enough people in England that will carry this vote for out if that happens he will make a lot of enemies in the exporting companies of Britain.

    At the moment he is supported by the Federation of Small Businesses, ( The FSB ), and by all of the companies that export to Europe, but if he engineers a pull out of Europe and the European importers apply sanctions for this act he is going to lose a hard core of previously Tory supporters and financiers.

    I am sure that this frightens the living daylights out of him.


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    Going it alone

    Post by Nuthin fancy on Tue 19 May 2015, 9:16 am

    Hi all,

    Some good observations there Paps. Although I dearly wish the UK to tell the EU to stuff it, I don't know if the folks of the Uk will vote to leave.It would not surprise me if 'Call me Dave' pulls out all the tricks in the books to keep us in. In my view it is a myth to think this country will collapse if we leave. Norway is doing just fine, as is Switzerland, Iceland etc, so I don't buy that argument. The case of Greece is a disgrace ( although they have a fantasy economic policy themselves and have lost the plot ). All this 'propping up' I think only delays the inevitable.

    I don't want to see Scotland going the same way. Sturgeon can squeeze the gonads all she wants. I am sure she will extract maximum dollar and cause no end of trouble with Alex pulling the strings. Problem is, if she can and does implement the economic policies she raves about what will be the true impact on Scotland ??...I dread to think. Again, you can't spend what you aint got, ( unless you borrow...Remember Gordon Brown ?? ) and her money has to come from somewhere.

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    Re: Its starting already !

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 19 May 2015, 11:56 am

    You cannot use the independent countries around Europe as an excuse not to pull out, as the ones that are not members of the EU have been free for many years and they do trade with all of Europe as much as they want.

    It will be different if "Dave" is forced to run a referendum and as a result Britain pulls out of Europe, as the trading countries of Europe are then likely to put an embargo on trade with Britain as a punishment for pulling out.

    We really do not want to make enemies of all of the exporting and importing countries of Europe in this way as more than a third of our exports go to Europe at the moment.

    This could be disastrous for the British economy.

    You are right, nevertheless, that if Scotland does go it alone we are going to struggle to survive for the first few years and we will need to borrow quite a lot in that period.

    We will certainly not have to get into anything like the 1.3 TRILLION national debt that the UK has at the moment.

    The Tories have been hammering on about reducing the "deficit" until we are sick of hearing about it but the truth is that over the five years that they and the Lib-Dems were in power this national debt has grown year-on-year from 76 billion to 1.3 Trillion .

    See this HERE

    Scotland will not need to take any advice from anybody on the risks of heavy borrowing.


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