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    More and better books in prisons !

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    papa_umau
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    More and better books in prisons !

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 10 Sep 2014, 11:17 am

    Prisoners get better libraries than public, says Tory

    Tory MP says there are more books-per-head in prisons than public libraries.

    Prisoners are “far better served” by library facilities than the general public, this MP has claimed.

    Some prisons carry more than 16 books for every inmate, compared to just one book per resident in a community library, Philip Davies, the Conservative MP for Shipley, told the Commons.

    Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary who has faced criticism after banning inmates from receiving books in the post under a crackdown on perks, said Mr Davies was “entirely right”.

    Read more on this from the Daily Telegraph HERE




    Well folks, do you agree that this has to be a rip-off of the rights of the general public, or, should convicted criminals be allowed to get more and better books than the general public ?


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    zathrus
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by zathrus on Thu 11 Sep 2014, 4:18 pm

    "Books per head" you said.

    When you consider that there are millions of people who frequent any particular area of public libraries, it is not surprising that the jails have "more per head" per population of any jail that may have around a thousand inmates.

    The two cannot be compared.

    Anyway, I am sure that such books will be going some way to rehabilitate the inmates who read them.
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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Thu 11 Sep 2014, 7:01 pm

    Take the books away. Take the telly away, take the gym away. 1 meal per day. Teach them how to make big rocks into little rocks. 14+ hours a day for the entirety of their sentence. Full stop. No time off for good behaviour, no conjugal visits, no telephone usage, no computer. No anything. Serve their sentence. Make going to jail a bad thing again. Not a chance for them to "turn their lives around", gain an education and etc. IF going to jail was a bad thing mayhaps there wouldn't be quite so much overcrowding and mayhaps people would think twice or even thrice b4 they did summat to go to jail.
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    zathrus
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by zathrus on Fri 12 Sep 2014, 12:57 pm

    I am with you on that one Tuppence.

    Society has gone soft on criminals.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 12 Sep 2014, 1:13 pm

    Sorry guys but those ideas are inhuman and anachonistic.

    We are much more civilised now than we used to be during and before the Victorian era, when Dickensian habits were the norm.

    One of  my best pals is a prison officer and he often talks about what it is like in today's jails. He is quick to say that while he thinks they have gone "too soft", he also thinks that all cons have to aim for something as if they have nothing to aim for on  liberation and during their sentences they will think nothing of creating mayhem in the jails.

    Personally, I believe that this practice of appeasement HAS gone too far and while it is good to have stuff, like TVs, gyms, wee luxuries,and of course remission, and yes, even books to take away for breaking the rules, the stick should be used just as much as the carrot is.


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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 12 Sep 2014, 7:32 pm

    Inhumane? Hardly. How humane is it for someone to beat a child to death over several days or weeks? How humane is it for someone to rape a child? How humane is it for someone to knife someone in the gut and leave them to die? How humane is it for someone to throw their wife downstairs? Starve their children? Hit them in the head with a rock for the 9 pound 50 they have in their pocket? Yeah!!! Let's give them a better chance to live a better life. Not on your Nellie,
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    papa_umau
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 13 Sep 2014, 11:50 am

    Sorry Tuppence, but that argument is such a cliche that it is not one we that we can consider in this discussion.

    It is true that one or more wrongs never make a right and if you are trying to say that the punishment should fit the crime then I have to say that in our now-civilised society we no longer take revenge on criminals by throwing them into a hole, feeding them bread and water, putting them in the rack or chaining them to a wall.

    We must be better than the animals and while the severity of the sentence is in the length of the sentence, this must be the "civilised" way to go. Torture, barbaric treatment, and cruelty is not now an accepted way to treat people who are already incarcerated.

    The punishment is in the taking away of the person's liberty and the way that they are treated in prisons is NOT included as part of that punishment.


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    Angie baby
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 13 Sep 2014, 12:14 pm

    Hi guys n' gals.

    I see what you are trying to get at Tuppence, but humanity has to move forward and can never be allowed to move backwards.

    Having said that, I totally agree that they have gone too far with this "appeasement" thing as almost all of the people outside the prisons see how prisoners are treated, when the old folk, who have done no wrong, cannot even feed themselves or keep themselves warm never mind have any of the luxuries that criminals in prison now take for granted.

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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Sat 13 Sep 2014, 1:17 pm

    Paps, nowt to do with revenge, more "aversion therapy". As I said earlier, make it bad enough that nothing they do out here is WORTH going in there. For now they get dietarily correct food, shelter, gym, cable, clothing (sad to say the arrowed jumpsuits are gone), visits from their families, visits from their wifes/husbands with privacy, and the education of their choice. The bestest bit-YOU get to pay for their goods and services. Aren't you the lucky lad?
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    papa_umau
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    Re: More and better books in prisons !

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 14 Sep 2014, 11:52 am

    "Aversion therapy" has two sides to it and if on the one side there is corporal punishment, as the aversion, on the other side there has to be reward.

    Again, this is just the "carrot-and-stick" principle, where the stick is of no use if there is not also a carrot.

    I think that what we are really discussing here is degree of the use of "the stick" so that the prisoner's human rights are not contravened.

    And do not come back with that old cliche again that the victim's human rights are not considered when the criminal commits the crime, as that is a whole other argument that must be addressed in the courts and not in the jails.


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