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    Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

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    papa_umau
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    Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 17 Feb 2014, 11:50 am

    As an atheist and a humanist I often wonder what drives the "faithful" to blindly accept the teachings from their priests and their holy books.

    Yes, of course I get it that "faith" requires no proof of any theism and that is how people of faith accept these teachings blindly and without question.

    Having said that I often wonder if many of these people of faith ever even use common sense when they are pushing their religious agendas as it is now a regular event to see these people, especially the hard-liners, taking the word from their holy books and priests as verbatim.

    Some of them will even put their own spin on these words and will come away with "truths" that are not actually evident in these scriptures.

    People like The Jehovah Witnesses often refuse blood-transfusions to such a degree that even if one of their own was going to die because of the need for blood they will still just let them die saying that "this is their God's will".

    I often wonder why they accept the need for doctors at all if that is the case, as if they get sick and die for any reason that too must be the wish of their God.

    There are many examples of this break from simple common sense in the interpretation that can be found of religion by such people.

    I find proofs like this popping up just about every day that organised religion is a crock and while I would never try to deny any of the faithful their right to worship as they please, I regularly find myself totally confused by how these religions can sometimes be interpreted.

    HERE is an event that I found on the internet this morning that is an excellent example of this blind and foolish faith.

    Please visit the link and come back and tell us what YOU think.


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    zathrus
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by zathrus on Thu 20 Feb 2014, 12:28 pm

    You never stray very far away from that subject do you Paps ?

    Having said that I do agree that just about all of the religions are bleeding away support so badly that eventually the only religious ones left will be the nutcases who murder school-girls and behead people who disagree with them.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Feb 2014, 12:06 pm

    A bit severe Zathrus, but quite true.

    The thing that gets me about all religions is that children are always brought up within the religions of their parents long before they are old enough to make their own minds up about this subject.

    I call this indoctrination and it is because of this constant practice that the organised religions manage to survive.


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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Mon 24 Feb 2014, 6:41 pm

    Having grown up with religion thrust down my throat on a daily basis and also having gone to a church baised school from age 10-15-it IS indoctrination. Pure and simple. Common sense (aka being able to actually think) is pretty much unknown in that atmosphere. I was kicked out of Sunday School at 8 when I asked my teacher-"when Cain went off to Nod-who did he marry?" OOPS. I mean seriously-ya got Adam, Eve and Cain left after the Abel debacle. What did he do-procreate with Eve? Jeez. Really?
    Anyway, the second time I was kicked out (different church) I asked why when god answered prayers the answer was always a resounding NO. By the time I hit 15 I decided to spend a summer trying out different faiths. At the end of the summer I had hit most of the 300+ churches in my town. Between Sunday school, church, youth meetings, young adult meetings, Wednesday meetings and etc (lots of etc btw), it wasn't that difficult to go to that many in that short 3 month span. Upshot of it was that not even one had any more sense than the one next to it nor, in point of fact, any real variance.
    That was the last time I set foot in a church other than my first wedding. Spent a LOT of time readin about different religions over the years and decided that it's just not my way to follow some rabid fanatic to my grave. No one really knows wtf is going on and by the time you are able to find out-you're already dead and by then it's a moot point.
    Take responsibility for your own actions and don't be Rude.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 12:11 pm

    Thanks for your support on that subject Tuppence. I think that as far as religion is concerned we are not far apart at all.

    That story was amusing if not tragic and I think it is awful that misdirected and guided adults should be allowed to indoctrinate their own children with that guff. I guess that if we tried to stop it we would be attacking their civil liberties.

    One great thing you have in America is your Constitution where many good and basic rules are set in stone. One of the best ones to me was the one that said: ( I paraphrase here ), that religious teachings would not be allowed in public schools as the two ethics should not mix.

    I totally agree with that as I feel that there is no room for fairy-stories of that kind when children should be learning the three "R"s and not the four "R"s.

    Sadly in Britain we do NOT have a Constitution and because of that the religions have far too easy a life of it here.


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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 12:23 pm

    ER... the constitution, as set for by our forefathers, is long gone. Sorry there Paps.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 11:06 am

    You are going to have to explain that one Tuppence, as it is far too broad a statement for a Brit to understand.

    Surely it is the case that the "Home of the brave and the land of the free" is based on your Constitution and within it your Bill of Rights.

    See THIS

    I think that just like with automatic democracy in the free West, ( including in Britain ), sometimes people are willing to take these freedoms for granted rather than referring to them as a correct way of life.

    As I see it the division between church and state in America is only enforced in state schools and if so-called "faith" schools want to educate whatever sections of American society, they have to be created and financed privately and outwith the state.

    See THIS

    In Britain we have no such separation and the faith schools and the private schools are financed either wholly or partly by the state.

    As an atheist I firmly support the idea that all state schools should be secular and that no single religion, ( including Christianity ), should be able to hold sway within our education system.

    Of course this should not stop the education about all religions in state schools as this knowledge is part and parcel of general education.

    Thanks to your Constitution and your Bill of Rights, America has gone much further in this direction than Britain has, as far as this is concerned.


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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Mon 31 Mar 2014, 5:28 pm

    Strangely, there is a lot of sense in the JW's stance on blood products, and it stems from the same root as the Kosher and Halal beliefs of the Jews and Muslims.

    The commandment comes from the Bible, Talmud and Qu'ran, and states that the Life is in the Blood, and the Life belongs to God, and the people must not consume it. This is why Kosher and Halal meat has to be drained of blood. JW's extend that prohibition to medical uses of blood products. They are not anti- medicine, in fact they have sponsored research into alternative products which allow bloodless surgery. This research is benefitting people of all faiths and none.

    JW's have remained free of many blood-borne diseases such as Hepatitis, and Aids, and so, although I don't agree with their stance on religion, I applaud their stance on blood, and the medical advances which have come about through their sponsoring of research.

    Also, while I'm at it, the dietary rules of Jews in particular, as set down in the Talmud, are a basic Food Safety manual for a hot country.

    Cheers, HG
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 11:55 am

    Yes HG, I am sure that all of the religious books make excuses/reasons for these practices.

    What I say is that other people's religious hangups should not be forced upon the innocent and wide-open minds of children.

    Of course, that is how all of the religions are perpetuated: by the indoctrination of children by the priests and parents of these children.

    As I see it children should not be brainwashed into accepting any religious teachings until they are mature enough to make up their own minds.


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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Mon 07 Apr 2014, 12:24 am

    Agreed Paps, My kids are not baptised, and they have grown up to make their own choices of faith or not. I had a lot of trouble in their schools over the RE curriculum.
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 07 Apr 2014, 11:44 am

    I think that the educators in Britain are just trying to please too many people as far as religious education is concerned.

    The governments of all colours are running scared of the religions and that is why they are terrified to risk upsetting them.

    I think that because we have the Christian religion in almost all of our state schools, the educating authorities find themselves in a bind over not allowing the free choices of religious education in the other state schools.

    Of course we do not have Islamic or Judaic or Buddhist etc' prayers before classes in our state schools and that is why these "other" religions get so much leeway from the state when they shout for equality.

    The simple answer would be to STOP teaching any single religion in state schools and let the other schools teach their kids specific religions WITHOUT state aid, if they want to.


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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Sat 19 Apr 2014, 1:43 am

    Fully Agree.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Is religious faith a booby-trap ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 19 Apr 2014, 12:42 pm

    Thanks for the support HG.

    I would have thought that that idea was simple common sense, but the religious pundits in state schools do not want to give up the power they have over the minds of our children.

    If the ramming of one particular religion down the throats of our children was seen as indoctrination, ( which it truly is ), it would stop tomorrow.


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