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    The Tories are laughable.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 12:55 pm

    hughh wrote:I want to hear members views on this subject not a load of junk information which can be found on the internet. I give my own clear views, now you lot start giving yours, on your own experience if possible.
    Hughh, we all gain our information about the world from the experiences of other people and if we just depend on our own narrow experiences we will not find much to talk about.

    The internet is probably the greatest boon that has been given to modern-day intellectuals and fact-finders and while it is always good to keep an eye open for rubbish - which is also there - the discerning ones are able to differentiate between the rubbish and the quality information.


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:32 pm

    People vote from their own experience and what is best for their own family. and not by reading articles written which are very bias towards which ever party they support.

    One statement I have read and heard many times Margaret Thatcher turned family members against each other during the miners strike is this true or a false statement?

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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 9:24 am

    It keeps being said Cameron party will look after their rich friends, I could also make the same statement about the Labours two Eds would they also be looking after their own rich friends and relations. Can't find out how rich Ed Ball is but his brothers worth over 10 million. Its quite true we would be better off with a true strong labour party but at this moment in time we haven't got one to vote for.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 11:14 am

    A few points I have to take you up on Hughh:

    1). While a good number of voters DO vote historically and on how they think any government or party will effect their own family's future, there are also a great number of voters - just like yourself, I may suggest - that are undecided and that need persuading.

    The BBC swingometer tells us that much of the electorate do wait until the last minute to lay their cross and this section of the electorate are open to persuasion from lots of different sources.

    2). I think that while there are many millionaires on all sides of the political divides, ( more amongst the Tories I think ), I do not think that the few millionaires in the Labour party and in many of the other parties will always vote with the rich as they are driven by more than riches to do what they do in politics.

    Finally, I do agree what many people have said about Thatcher; she did split familes right down the middle as she appealed to the greed of some while others resisted her charms. She was the great expert in the "divide and conquer" maxim while many did not even realise she was actually doing that.


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 12:26 pm

    It was Scargil and no one else who course trouble between the two sets of miners. He let the miners in the north have the vote on strike action and not the miners in the Notts area. He sent down flying pickets to stop the Notts. miners from working. The Police had by law to get involved and allow the Notts. miners to get into work. It was this situation that made them bring out the strike action law.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 12:43 pm

    From a miners point of view Scargill was a hero and even if he did not stop the decimation of the coalmines in Britain he tried his best to fight off the power of Thatcher.

    Now, and after almost all of the deep and rift mines in Britain have been closed down and millions of hard-working miners and their communities have been destroyed by Thatcher, just like the railways were destroyed by Beeching, we are now having to import millions of tons of coal every year while this country still sits on billions of tons of reserves of coal, and many thousands of miles of new railways are being built to try to ease the congestion on the roads.

    These destroyers of industry and our vital transport links are now being shown that what they did was very shortsighted and is now costing us billions of pounds to put right.


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 3:20 pm

    This statement bewilders me, far more pits were closed under Harold Wilson and James Callahan than Margaret Thatcher. It was Labour and Tory policy to close pits each year starting 1960 with North sea oil and gas coming on line.

    If Scargil was such a bloody hero why did all the Nottingham area miner want to carry on working?
    Scargil was evil and he is still living the high life at the miners pension fund expense. They are trying to evict him out of a mansion but he doctored the paperwork to saying he could live in this mansion rent free for life.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 30 Oct 2013, 10:32 am

    Yes Hughh, Tory supporters have been saying that for some time as they are ashamed of what Maggie Thatcher did to the mines, the miners and their communities.

    If you want to know the full story go HERE and read what John Prescott had to say about it.


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Wed 30 Oct 2013, 12:49 pm

    I don't need to read about it I live in the heart of the mining industry and married a miners daughter. If you want to read and believe that propaganda that's up to you.

    1/ Sargell gave the northern miners a ballet for strike action.

    2/ He knew the Nottingham miners would not support him.

    3/ He tried to force the Nottingham into strike action with hundreds of Flying pickets.

    4/ In this free democratic country police had to help miners get into work.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 31 Oct 2013, 11:13 am

    It does not come down to what I believe, it comes down to the facts that are accepted by just about every aware person in Britain that does not have a right-wing axe to grind.

    Scargill used every trick in the book to try to beat Thatcher, but in the end he was defeated and many thousands of hard-working miners were thrown onto the dole.

    That is one fact that is indelibly written into the annals of British history that will never be forgotten by the people who were abused by Thatcher and her cruel government.

    Read a good comment on this from Martin Goldrick of The BBC HERE


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Thu 31 Oct 2013, 12:51 pm

    Then there is the charge that it was Margaret Thatcher who "destroyed" the coal mines and the mining communities. How many times have the BBC broadcast that claim without refutation? Yet the facts show that far more coal mines closed under the Labour Prime Ministers Harold Wilson and James Callaghan.


    This is a true statement which I have copied and pasted. Keep in mind Blaire closed the remaining 60 odd coal mines.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 11:39 am

    I am not going to argue figures with you Hughh, as these figures often change because of where they were gleaned, ( someone once said that statistics can be made to say just about anything ), but I will say that overall, and because of the dogma that drives every Tory, the miners were attacked more by Thatcher than by any other individual in government at that time.

    While pit closures were done over a very long period and by both right-wing and left-wing governments, the general unrest with strikes and marches that were seen amongst the miners in those terrible days was much greater when Thatcher was in charge.

    Please read THIS link written by John Prescott in The Daily Mirror and you may get the general feeling that was abroad at that time against all of the governments - and especially against Thatcher's government, that contributed to the death of Britain's great coal-mining industry.


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 4:41 pm

    Coal stocks were being built up but because it was to expensive to buy. Even miners were selling back their coal rations because they didn't want it. When Labour were closing pits they absorbing workers into other pits or giving them a very nice redundancy package saving any problems with the unions. Yes a left wing labour MP and a the mirror also a labour paper can lay the blame on Margaret Thatcher and make it sound right. Sorry doesn't wash with me.

    Even a private own coal mine in our area had to close because it couldn't get any contracts.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 02 Nov 2013, 12:15 pm

    For someone that says he is not aligned with any political party you do spend a lot of time supporting Tory actions and denigrating Labour actions.

    Maybe you should just make up your mind and come out of the Tory closet eh ? Wink

    That aside, I still think that any true Labour party group that is out there will always try to protect the ordinary people, while any Conservative group will always try to protect their closest friends in banking and commerce and the corporations, to the detriment of all of the ordinary people.

    I used to consider the Liberal Democrats as similar to the left-of-centre Labourites but since they sold their souls to the Tories for a bit of extra power, they too are now ruined as supporters of the needs of the people.

    If you are not a Green party supporter or a UKIP party supporter then there is nothing left for you to do than go with the one that is left.

    That can be nothing other than real Labour.

    I guess it is soon going to be "make your mind up" time. Suspect


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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Sat 02 Nov 2013, 3:20 pm

    The truth is the working class who are members of a strong trade union have always done well under the labour party.
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    Re: The Tories are laughable.

    Post by hughh on Sat 02 Nov 2013, 5:47 pm

    You seem very blind to the fact that Harold Wilson and recent Labour parties leaders have destroyed the faith none union members of the working class had in the party. Common room forum which I was a member there was not one labour supporter among them. The forum was made up of all classes and age groups. Only the miners in the north thought good of Scargill he was and still is an evil power hungry person. During the strike he turned up in a battered old car but at his mansion he had a posh car all at the expense of the unions funds, must not for get the posh apartment in London. He lived like a lord. But I expect you find a left wing paper some where Papa to say I am telling a pack of lies.

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