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    How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

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    zathrus
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    How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by zathrus on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 12:03 pm

    One of the reasons why some firefighters are striking just now is that they are being asked to stay on longer and longer to get the same pension.

    The thing is that firefighting and other emergency services cannot be done by geriatrics and that is why they simply cannot be forced to get older and older while they are doing those hard jobs.

    I have no clue why this point is not understood by the authorities.

    Anybody ?
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    hughh
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 4:57 pm

    Got to admit I am a little confused on this subject as many firemen work as firemen up to 60 years of age at the moment. And many are fit enough beyond this age. All workers are being hit and made to work beyond the age of 65 before they get a pension so why should they get exclusion from these cuts. Not saying it is fair but why should some get exclusion from cuts.
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    Firemen

    Post by Technician on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:02 pm

    Hi all,

    I can see both points here, but lets face it firemen need to be 'fit' for duty as part of their employment contract. I can well see their point. Would you like a 60yr old running up a ladder to rescue you from a burning building.?

    Its not that these firemen don't want to do it, nor that they are not dedicated, they are. You can only go on so long, and lets face it you do not function, on the whole, as well at 60 as you did at 30.

    Its not just the physical side either, there is a lot of stress and traumatic situations to deal with (ie, serious road accidents/deaths ). Ultimately lives depend on their ability to do the job, and the government needs to listen to those guys at the sharp end who need to face up to this day to day.

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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:29 pm

    A person in good health and looks after his or her body certainly not old at 60 and running up a ladder no problem. Go to any GYM and check it out for your self. What this is all about his money receiving a nice large pension at 50 and then being fit and able to carry on working till 65 when they receive state pension very nice.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 27 Sep 2013, 1:31 pm

    Extremely well said Technician.

    I think that some people in the emergency services simply cannot do that job well enough when they start to get too old for it.

    Yes, there are a few oldsters that are extremely fit but in the main when old age comes it does not come alone.

    That is why the other emergency services almost all retire at fifty-five as the medical experts know that after that date many of them might become liabilities at the pointed end.

    Of course, in all of these emergency services there are a few jobs that are more easy to do, where some of these operatives could get sedentiary or maintenance jobs, but there are just not enough numbers of such jobs to make every emergency service worker stay on until up to or past sixty.


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    Angie baby
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 28 Sep 2013, 11:21 am

    I think that the whole point here is that people like firefighters are now being coerced into working longer so that their occupational pensions will be worth lifting when they do finally retire.

    As Technician says: I would not like a sixty year old firefighter to come to my burning upstairs window hoping to rescue me either. I mean we won't know how fit or unfit these sixty year old's will be until they have a heart attack and drop one of us from the top of the ladder.
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Sat 28 Sep 2013, 12:34 pm

    Just get this age and fitness in line they are not connected. I am 74 on Saturday next on Monday I will have a weight belt on with 7 kg of weight. On my back will be a 15ltr tank of air. I am not super fit just an average bloke getting on enjoying life. To me 60 is just a youngster. A friend of mine was a fireman he got his pension at 50 but still carried on as a fireman after a job application and a fitness test and many have done the same. ^0 old you must be joking.
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 29 Sep 2013, 11:57 am

    Yes hughh, I am sure that you ARE a very fit 74 year-old but believe me, you are the exception to the rule.

    The great majority of elderly people are not as fit as you are and as all of us get older we get closer to the day that we might have a heart attack or a stroke.

    I guess it is just the mathematical chance that this could happen that allows most elderly people to retire and to take it easy at age sixty, and why the people in the dangerous emergency services have been allowed previously to retire at fifty-five.

    This government's frantic desire to extend the working lives of elderly people, in order to save money and to make the cost of the state pension cheaper, and also coercing people into paying into a secondary private workplace pensions is a cynical exercise that is unworthy of them.

    Many people at the bottom end of the working scale are struggling to survive right now with the money they get without having to throw more of their pitiful pay into a second pension-pot.

    Few of the politicians - especially those in the millionaire cabinet jobs - will need to extend their working lives as they will have great pensions paid to them as civil servants when they retire.

    I know, as I WAS that "soldier" ( read civil servant ). !

    What is "good for the goose" in my opinion, should also be "good for the gander", as they say.


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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Mon 30 Sep 2013, 9:44 pm

    Blaire certainly made his money flying the red flag. We can call Cameron but at least he's flying his own colours. I still believe he will regain power only because of Blaire dirty tricks under the red flag Many will wonder if they can trust Labour again.
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 01 Oct 2013, 1:08 pm

    Well, actually, it was Blair flying the blue flag that has made a lot of people lose interest and value in his version of Labour, called "New-Labour".

    He took Labour lurching so far to the right that a lot of previous Labour supporters, including me, tore up their membership cards.

    Now we are seeing a refreshed Labour party under true left-winger Ed Miliband, ( if not a Communist like his dad ), taking the party forward into the future while thinking about the people who he cares most about: the working class, salt of the earth, ordinary people of Britain.

    AND.... it's about time too !


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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Tue 01 Oct 2013, 3:27 pm

    Blaire still managed to stay in for several terms with labour supporter votes. You are counting your chickens to soon with Ed he is still surrounded by members of new labour with Bull as his right hand man.
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 02 Oct 2013, 10:58 am

    hughh wrote:Blaire still managed to stay in for several terms with labour supporter votes. You are counting your chickens to soon with Ed he is still surrounded by members of new labour with Bull as his right hand man.
    Yes, it took three terms, an illegal war in Iraq, and a confirmed shift to the right before the voters in Britain eventually sussed him out and stopped voting for Blair and his cronies.

    Now his rightist New-Labour is dead and buried and only a true Labour party will replace what was left of the old New-Labour machine.

    I might well be "counting my chickens too soon" but I have a strong feeling that Ed Miliband's real Labour party is what the British electorate is waiting for, and even IF there are still some Blairites in the shadow cabinet at the moment, I am sure that Miliband will clear some of them out long before the election itself comes around.

    Ed Miliband KNOWS how the electorate feels about Balls and because of this I will be very surprised if he, ( Balls ), survives until the next election.


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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Wed 02 Oct 2013, 12:15 pm

    Keep in mind X forces personnel like myself did not fair to well under Wilson left wing party so its not going to be plain sailing.
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 03 Oct 2013, 11:40 am

    I think that what Cameron said in his keynote speech, ( yes I do listen to Tories too BTW ), about the next Labour government being a left-leaning government under "Red Ed", is actually true even if Ed Miliband is NOT a Marxist, like his dad was.

    I am certain that Ed Miliband is going to appeal to the ordinary people of Britain by coming from the true centre-left and after so many years of torture has been imposed on these people by two, yes TWO, past governments including the Tory coalition and Blair's New-Labour Tories as well.

    I guess it is about HOW FAR to the left this next government say they are going to go that will decide who will vote for it. After all, many political parties of the past have tried very hard to capture the votes from the centre ground but very few of them have ever finished up truly having centre-ground politics once they achieved that power.


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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Thu 03 Oct 2013, 3:17 pm

    Some Labour MPs send their children to free schools and at the same not wanting others to do the same. This is not helping the labour party to gain trust of the voters. These kind of tricks don't go unnoticed and soon get picked up by news papers.


    Last edited by hughh on Sun 06 Oct 2013, 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : a part was repeated in other posts)
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 04 Oct 2013, 11:46 am

    Yes, and as I have already said in two other places here, I DO read right-wing media sources as well as left-wing sources.

    My opinion, ( as "opinion" is all that it is ), is based on information that I have received both from left-wing sources, right-wing sources and independent sources.

    I guess that as the election comes closer and closer we are going to see this battle heat up and we are going to have to be very discerning about where we get our information from if we are going to see the actual trends as they evolve.

    Of course I do support Ed Miliband and his plans for our centre-left future and I think that if the electorate are intelligent enough and open-minded enough they will see that a true centre-left government of the future is the government that is going to right many of the brutal wrongs that have been made by the Tories against the ordinary people of this country since the Cameron-led coalition took over.


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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by hughh on Fri 04 Oct 2013, 5:30 pm

    electorate are intelligent enough and open-minded enough

    Having Ball in charge of the purse will worry a lot of people and he could be a vote loser for the party. The recovery as now started and if it continues and grows over the next few months will make it even harder for the Ed to win. Who would want Ball left in charge to destroy the pain we have gone through
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 05 Oct 2013, 12:08 pm

    hughh wrote:electorate are intelligent enough and open-minded enough

    Having Ball in charge of the purse will worry a lot of people and he could be a vote loser for the party. The recovery as now started and if it continues and grows over the next few months will make it even harder for the Ed to win. Who would want Ball left in charge to destroy the pain we have gone through
    Hughh.....

    Yes, many of the electorate are not very bright, are closed minded and set deep in dogma and these ones will never even look at the pros and cons of the different parties. Even as a slightly dogmatised lefty myself I still try to see any good that each party has done when they have had the chance by being in power.

    The "Balls" subject has been well debated here and I think we both feel the same about this confirmed New-Labourite. I am sure that Ed Miliband would get him out of the shadow cabinet right now if he could, but Balls has a lot of influential supporters in the Labour party.

    Every member of the shadow cabinet ( and hopefully the next actual cabinet ), have different axes to grind that are usually connected to the portfolio that they are given by the Prime Minister, but so long as they are not individually too powerful, the Prime Minister usually has the last say in who spends what money where.

    The Labour party, ( and previous governments ), have had the reputation for the profligate spending of money that they don't have, and rightly or wrongly, I believe they have now learned their lesson and they will no longer borrow to spend as heavily as they once did.

    With that major indictment out of the way I believe that the next TRUE Labour government will try much harder, than the Tories ever would, to look after the ordinary people of Britain and if they can indicate this just before the next election I cannot see them being beaten into power by any other political force.

    NOW... maybe this thread has worn too far away from the original topic and we should either stop it there or discuss this serious subject in greater depth in the political sub-forum.


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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 11:51 am

    I feel that firefighters, who do a very demanding job, should be allowed to retire from the 'hands on' side of the job at 55, if only because it is more difficult to maintain fitness as you age.

    However, there are few ' desk jobs' in the Fire Service, so I feel that perhaps they should be transferred to the Emergency Services Dispatching departments, where they could use their knowledge in helping to send the right kind of vehicles and crews to incidents. The Fire Service does far more than just put out fires nowadays.
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    Re: How can "old" firefighters do their job ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 10 Oct 2013, 10:45 am

    The trouble here is that many of these jobs are done by civllians already and some firefighters are just not suited to being stuck indoors doing desk jobs.

    I say, when they turn 55 they should be retired on a decent occupational pension so that this might open up jobs for the youngsters coming in at the other end.

    The Tories want us all to keep working until we drop dead in harness so that they will then not need to pay us a pension at all.


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