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    British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

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    British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 29 Aug 2013, 11:11 am

    For decades care of our most undemocratic voting system "first past the post", the British Tory electorate have put in a succession of right wing Government's, beginning in the 80's and namely, Margaret Thatcher and her right wing Tory Government. Thus beginning a separation ( devolution ) of local authorities UK wide, from Central Government funding, based on the Tory belief of small State, and low income tax on the working population.

    It is Margaret Thatcher who cut income tax for all British workers, and it was she who brought in the Poll Tax, which is now Council Tax, and it was she who began to remove the role of what the State should provide via income tax payers money to local authorities UK wide, this political agenda has been ongoing by stealth for over 30 years, and not one opposition party has said a thing about it, they have just gone along with it all. Including the former New Labour Government.

    First in the 80's we had Poll Tax, then Community Charge, and now Council Tax, all three have played their role by being allowed to increase by stealth over the past three decades to fund local services, and have replaced increases in income tax to fund these same local services.

    The UK has virtually lost the vital role of what the State should provide in looking after the poor, the old, the weak, the vulnerable. ie this could be any one of us at any time.

    And now this right wing Tory lead coalition helped by Liberal Democrats lead by Nick Clegg, are continuing to uphold David Cameron to finish off what Margaret Thatcher started.

    The Tory's are driven ideologically. They are against the role of the State interfering with Government policy. To the Tory's, Community means Charity, and nothing more than that.

    In my view their ideological philosophy is against everything that is human.

    These cuts we are facing, are about weakening the State even further, and its role within the Community, in false favour of a rich and powerful elite.

    These UK cuts are little more than the right wing weakening the role of the collective bodies in our Communities, as the coalition proceeds in its economic goal to weaken the role of the State, which effects the vulnerable, and have Charities pick up, where the State wont.

    The cuts are not about cost.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 29 Aug 2013, 11:55 am

    While I agree about the fact that Thatcher introduced the Poll-Tax to all of Britain after experimenting with it in Scotland and I agree that the Council Tax is little more than "son-of-Poll-Tax", I have to say that your ranting on about "the role of the state" in every paragraph above, while correct, to an extent, is again too simplistic to take much out of.

    In truth, the connection to Britain's payment's deficit, ( which I think you are alluding to ), is more attached to the world banking crash than it is with any actual policies of The Tory or the New-Labour governments of the past.

    After this country's economy and many others in Europe and the world collapsed all of these governments tried to take action that would fix these economies and this brought severe austerity to almost all of the ordinary people of these countries.

    Britain was no different in this and we are still fighting to try to repair the damage that was done during this pandemic recession.

    The greatest argument against the Tories and their Lib-Dem cohorts is HOW they are fighting this war against the recession as they are taking more away from the people who can least afford it than they are from their rich and powerful friends.

    The selling off of the nationalised industries in favour of giving this work to the privatised industries is typical of any right wing dogma and we should not be surprised about this.

    After all of this has been discussed and settled we are still left with a deficit of spending that has to be addressed.

    HOW this is to be addressed is open to debate, but the fact that it does exist is not open for debate.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 30 Aug 2013, 12:01 pm

    papa_umau wrote:While I agree about the fact that Thatcher introduced the Poll-Tax to all of Britain after experimenting with it in Scotland and I agree that the Council Tax is little more than "son-of-Poll-Tax", I have to say that your ranting on about "the role of the state" in every paragraph above, while correct, to an extent, is again too simplistic to take much out of.

    In truth, the connection to Britain's payment's deficit, ( which I think you are alluding to ), is more attached to the world banking crash than it is with any actual policies of The Tory or the New-Labour governments of the past.

    After this country's economy and many others in Europe and the world collapsed all of these governments tried to take action that would fix these economies and this brought severe austerity to almost all of the ordinary people of these countries.

    Britain was no different in this and we are still fighting to try to repair the damage that was done during this pandemic recession.

    The greatest argument against the Tories and their Lib-Dem cohorts is HOW they are fighting this war against the recession as they are taking more away from the people who can least afford it than they are from their rich and powerful friends.

    The selling off of the nationalised industries in favour of giving this work to the privatised industries is typical of any right wing dogma and we should not be surprised about this.

    After all of this has been discussed and settled we are still left with a deficit of spending that has to be addressed.

    HOW this is to be addressed is open to debate, but the fact that it does exist is not open for debate.
    Papa, The right of the Tory party are a small State low income tax party. The right of the Tory party loathe the welfare State.

    What we have been witnessing since 2010 is the Tory lead coalition finishing off what Margaret Thatcher started in 1979, reducing the State and cutting welfare. This is being finished off by Cameron using the deficit as a cover.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:32 pm

    Get use to the idea of the right wing being in power its here to stay, no matter which party we vote for. But still, no harm in dreaming.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 02 Sep 2013, 11:10 am

    Yes Hughh, while you may be right again, and many of the people of Britain, especially the Tories think of nobody but themselves and their own, I think that the same people have just about had enough of the me, me, me, politics of the right wing and they are now looking for something different.

    I might be wrong, but I think that when we consider that the Tories only got in by the skin of their teeth and with the help of the Liberal Democrats last time, I might suggest that that aberration will not happen again.

    The only party left that might change things is the Labour party.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Mon 02 Sep 2013, 3:45 pm

    Its hard to say what's going to happen but its all going to depend on how well the conservative do over the next two years. Eds not very popular and UKIP could take loads of votes.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 03 Sep 2013, 12:13 pm

    Yes Hughh, UKIP COULD take a lot of votes and most of these votes will be taken from previous Tory supporters.

    That suggests that UKIP are going to do a lot of harm to the real Tories out there while they push their war against immigration, in particular, and Europe, in general.

    Historically, the longer a party, ( or in this case a coalition ), does in power the less chance they have of being re-elected unless they do something very special for the electorate in the last few months. I think that Cameron's Tories have run out of ideas and instead of being an asset to them the Liberal Democrats are now just a weight around their necks.

    It is hard to predict what might happen in two years, but I honestly cannot see this coalition government surviving past the next general election.

    If the Tories get back in you can say "I told you so" and I will happily accept that.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Tue 03 Sep 2013, 2:18 pm

    Coalition between cons and libs will never happen again. You are wrong to believe it will be just Cons. who will lose out. The UKIP leader was told this very same reason and he just said rubbish we haven't taken off the labour party because there as not been any elections in labour strong holds. A lot of labour supporters are still very concerned what Blair and Brown did between them so there could be a big swing from labour. Conservatives could get in depending if Cameron gets a good deal from Europe and more jobs are created in the private sector. Syria vote cost Ed dear he used it to try and bring down Cameron rather taking the real issue to heart.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 10:52 am

    Yes Hughh all of these points are accurate, to a degree, BUT....

    1 ). If the Tories feel that they will not be able to get in by themselves next time round, who are they going to join up with to get the votes ? The Labour Party ? I don't think so, and that leaves no other party that might have enough spare votes going to bolster the Tory hopes in 2015.

    2 ). While it is true that the New-Labour government made too many mistakes to get back in in that precise form again, I see no reason why a change of direction back to some true Socialist policies might not be attractive to many of the electorate in 2015.

    3 ).I cannot ever see very many left-wingers jumping ship from Labour to the UKIP party as these two factions are just too far apart in political philosophy for that to happen in any amount of numbers.

    That would leave a diminishing Tory party floundering all on it's own and without any help coming from anywhere.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 1:39 pm

    I believe there will be a big swing, would not like to put money on which way. I believe Conservative will remain in power without any help from any other party. Just why do I believe this there is good signs of growth in exports and the service industry. IF and this is a big IF wage start to increase and firms start to take on workers they will soon forget the hardship they have gone through in the last two years. We will get a better idea over the next 12 months.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 10:46 am

    hughh wrote:I believe there will be a big swing, would not like to put money on which way. I believe Conservative will remain in power without any help from any other party. Just why do I believe this there is good signs of growth in exports and the service industry. IF and this is a big IF wage start to increase and firms start to take on workers they will soon forget the hardship they have gone through in the last two years. We will get a better idea over the next 12 months.
    Hughh, Cameron's party are not Conservative, they are ultra right wing Tory's who care nothing for the ordinary people, they just care about their wealthy chums.

    There are food banks opening right across Britain for people who cant afford food, these people are working and non working who are enduring cuts in their welfare payments, including housing benefit.

    There is a French firm called Atos appointed by this Government to test disabled people for ability to work, even though their doctors have signed them off work.

    These tests are by Atos are resulting in suicides among disabled people who Atos say can work, and as such these disabled people lose their benefits.

    Both Cameron and Clegg's party are finished at the next general election. And people like you need insight.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 10:47 am

    Hughh said:

    I believe there will be a big swing, would not like to put money on which way. I believe Conservative will remain in power without any help from any other party. Just why do I believe this there is good signs of growth in exports and the service industry. IF and this is a big IF wage start to increase and firms start to take on workers they will soon forget the hardship they have gone through in the last two years. We will get a better idea over the next 12 months.
    Yes, you may be right about that.

    I guess we are just going to have to wait and see. Neutral


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 10:48 am

    papa_umau wrote:Yes, you may be right about that.

    I guess we are just going to have to wait and see. Neutral
    Note to Ivanhoe....

    SO.... what's your comment on that quote Ivanhoe as just popping in an automated quotation tells us very little ?
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 11:15 am

    Like it or not Ivanhoe I honestly believe we will never see another left wing party. SNP in Scotland are doing so well labour are going to lose a lot of seats there. Where I live Labour party will get in again so not much use convincing me who is the best party to run the country. I just have to take what comes and like it.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 11:21 am

    Ivanhoe wrote:
    papa_umau wrote:Yes, you may be right about that.

    I guess we are just going to have to wait and see. Neutral
    Note to Ivanhoe....

    SO.... what's your comment on that quote Ivanhoe as just popping in an automated quotation tells us very little ?
    I already answered that Papa.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 11:22 am

    hughh wrote:Like it or not Ivanhoe I honestly believe we will never see another left wing party. SNP in Scotland are doing so well labour are going to lose a lot of seats there. Where I live Labour party will get in again so not much use convincing me who is the best party to run the country. I just have to take what comes and like it.
    Hughh, for your info, we havent had a left wing Labour Government running this country since the 1970's.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 11:27 am

    If I might say so Hugh, that is a very defeatist attitude.

    What is going on in Scotland has nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening to us in England and it is the people who cannot make up their minds and who do not stand up for what they believe in, down here, that allow parties that they do not want to get in, to get elected.

    Democracy is a great servant but if it is not used properly it can be a dangerous master.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 12:12 pm

    If I might say so Hugh, that is a very defeatist attitude.

    What happens in Scotland makes a big difference to which party gets in power I believe labour have 40 seats I believe which they could lose. Put me right if I am wrong Papa. Tories none.
    For any one but labour to win power in Mansfield there will have to be one hell of a big swing. At the moment UKIP will still get my vote.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 12:51 pm

    hughh wrote:If I might say so Hugh, that is a very defeatist attitude.

    What happens in Scotland makes a big difference to which party gets in power I believe labour have 40 seats I believe which they could lose. Put me right if I am wrong Papa. Tories none.
    For any one but labour to win power in Mansfield there will have to be one hell of a big swing. At the moment UKIP will still get my vote.

    Hughh, if you vote UKIP you may as well vote Tory, again. because they are both right wing small State low income tax parties.

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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:41 pm

    I have never voted for the conservative because its a waste of time. UKIP are singing the right tunes for me at the moment. But two more years to make up my mind.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 10:39 am

    hughh wrote:If I might say so Hugh, that is a very defeatist attitude.

    What happens in Scotland makes a big difference to which party gets in power I believe labour have 40 seats I believe which they could lose. Put me right if I am wrong Papa. Tories none.
    For any one but labour to win power in Mansfield there will have to be one hell of a big swing. At the moment UKIP will still get my vote.
    Actually, at the last election the Tories up here got fifteen seats while the SNP got sixty five.

    In Westminster the Tories went from no seats at all - from Scotland - to just one - as it is now.

    There is nothing to say - at the moment - that the Tories will do any better in 2015, in Westminster, than they did the last time round and at that time they needed the seats that the Liberal Democrats gave to them to secure a majority.

    A Lot is going to have to change to increase the Tory fortunes in any general election.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 11:41 am

    Yes will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 2 years. Can't see the Libs getting many seats so I cannot see them being able to support any one.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 7:01 pm

    She put the country back on a trajectory, an upward trajectory. The Britain I grew up in, in the wake of the Second World War, was a country which was in precipitous decline, which had entirely lost its national self-confidence. And Mrs. Thatcher put that right.


    I to can copy and paste how true these words are.
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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:45 am

    Mrs Thatcher truly was a person of deep conviction, but in my opinion, and in the opinion of many right wingers too, she did more harm to the ordinary people of Britain than she did good.

    She was a bit like Marmite, in that you either loved her or hated her, and sadly, at her end, there were far more people hating her, ( even from her own side ), than there were who loved her.

    As far as your comment further above is concerned:

    The Liberal Democrats - by their choice to support the cruel policies of the Tories - have been decimated in the opinion polls and are now getting just about as many potential votes as the UKIP party are. They are now truly a "busted flush", and it will take many years before they can get back to the level they were previously at before they threw in with the Tories.

    Incidentally, yesterday, it was published that a senior Liberal Democrat, Sarah Teather, will step down at the next election because of the support that her party has given to the Tories over welfare cuts.

    Find this article HERE.


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    Re: British politics since the Thatcher era in the 80's. This explains today's cuts.

    Post by hughh on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:23 pm

    People are certainly blind, she had to be cruel to be kind. She had a job to do and did it very well in my view. Inflation was so high it was hurting every one and she had to bring it down at all cost. Manufacturing was in free fall because of inflation and not because of her.

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