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    Syria...the smoking Gun ?

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    Technician
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    Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by Technician on Mon 26 Aug 2013, 9:20 am

    Hi all,

    There is no pun intended here, issues are far too serius for that. What does the UK and USA do about Syria ?.

    It seems to me there are no excuses for chemical attacks, or any other sort on their own people, so a state of civil war exists. The question remains should we get involved again ???.

    It seems to me that the UK thinks it has a God given right to interfere in conflicts throughout the world ( although its careful what it chooses...could you see us intervening in China ?... I think not! ).

    We should mind our own business, but probably the word 'oil' has a lot to do with it. I am British, but to be honest I am sick of the place ( yes, I would move if I was younger and had not so many ties to the country ) and of us interfering. Apart from that, what do we interfere with ?.

    I had an interesting talk the other day with an army major who has served time in Afghanistan ( recently ) and he had some right tales to tell. Obviously he could only say so much, but it transpires that at the present time the British army can only function with the help of the Territorials ( I think the name has been changed recently ) it is so under staffed....What's news!

    Add to this the gung ho attitude of sending war ships to Gibraltar ( in fact I did not think we had any left!!!). The politicians take the p*** out of our armed forces. You can only strech so far before you break and the pressueres our service men are under, doing a sterling job in crap circumstances should shame the politicians....So what do we do now...Have another fight in the middle east ?

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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 26 Aug 2013, 12:03 pm

    Yes, it is a very vexing question.

    Angie was asking something of the same HERE

    As I see it, there are no easy answers to this very acute problem as none of the free-world nations want to get their fingers burned with another "boots-on-the-ground" war.

    ( If you remember, it was Saddam's use of poison gas against the Northern Kurds in Iraq that helped to trigger that last "boots on the ground" war ).

    There is also - as Angie already said - a nasty quandry here because on the one hand we have the Syrian rebels who are backed by the Islamic Brotherhood, ( and not a few Taliban ), fighting against the government troops and we also have the government side being alleged to have used nerve-gas against their own people.

    If this is proved to be the case then the international community will be forced to take action and they are already talking about technological attacks being made on Assad's capability to launch such nerve-gas weapons.

    Read this interesting article on the subject HERE

    This would then look as if the West are supporting the Islamicist terrorists that are amongst the Syrian rebels, and I know for a fact that they do not want to be seen to be helping the people who triggered 9/11, 7/7, and many other atrocities.


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    Syria

    Post by Technician on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 9:52 am

    Hi All,

    Sorry I had not seen Angies contribution!!!. However the idea of action seems even more stupid to me now. The USA is gung ho as always, as Obama has put himself into a corner now.

    A poll today put the British public 3:1 against any action, and a lot of MP's don't seem so keen either so Cameron had better temper his blustering attitude.

    On top of that the 'Peace envoy!!!!!' Tony Blair is all keen to see us get into a fight as he sits on the luxury yachts of his USA pals in Sardinia.

    Ask yourselves again why the UK??. Do we hear such rhetoric from other counties which always keep away from trouble, and overall provide a high standard of living for their populations.

    Ie, Sweden, Iceland, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Canada, etc etc??


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 10:37 am

    Yes Technician, sometimes world leaders simply cannot help themselves.

    While there will be virtually no support for military action from the British or the American or French people, these world leaders are under terrible pressure to act as the policemen of the world when such incidences occur.

    All that said, I also saw those rows of innocent children's bodies in the morgue, that Angie mentioned, and that unsettles me no end.


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 11:44 am

    Syria really is a problem no one wants to get involved in but if you make a law about chemicals weapons then you have no choice but to act when the law is broken. Giving weapons out which the French are doing is very dangerous. These same weapons could be used against you later. I think all we will do is fire a few rockets at their air field and their rocket launchers. Just to make it a level play ground.
    Warship in Gib nothing new about that, more rare not to have one stationed their.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 29 Aug 2013, 12:26 pm

    Yes Hughh... there is no doubt that the use of chemical weapons in warfare IS unlawful - if it can be proved - but my question is: Why does the job always fall on the Brits the Americans and the French to be the world's policemen ? After all, was that not why the United Nations, with their multi-state army, is all about.

    This kind of trouble always falls at the door of the Western countries to be active in slapping down such international lawbreaking, but as usual, The United Nations are powerless to do this because Russia and China have vetoed any decision to bring in these UN troops.

    Even while I am not religious, I remember that a great sage once said that Armageddon, ( or "The End Of Days" ), would start in the middle East and spread to engulf the world.

    Maybe that sage had it right and we should try much harder to ensure that the ethnic and religious strife that simmers in just about every Middle Eastern state should not be allowed to grow into any such "Armageddon".

    Read more about Muslim against Muslim HERE

    How we might interfere in these kinds of a religious civil wars is a very complex question with many very complex answers.


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by zathrus on Thu 29 Aug 2013, 12:42 pm

    What an interesting idea Paps.

    After reading that link it seems that almost all of the trouble in the middle east has been attached to the hatred that the Shiites have for the Sunny's.

    It showed in Iraq, it is still showing in Afghanistan and it is also showing in almost all of the middle east states that took part in the Arab Spring.

    Maybe we should just build a big wall around the middle east and let them get on with wiping each-other out.

    This is one time when genocide might be a good idea.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Thu 29 Aug 2013, 3:29 pm

    Got a feeling Cameron doesn't want to get involved just by saying he wants UN agreement but he knows full well Russia will veto it. After we got out fingers burnt over Iraq he's found a way of not losing face.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Fri 30 Aug 2013, 9:33 am

    Well the will of the people as been heard we are not taking part in any action in Syria. Some thing as to be done but I am very pleased its not us in the lead once again.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 30 Aug 2013, 11:28 am

    Actually Hughh, even although Cameron was defeated in that first vote there is to be a second vote once the UN inspectors have made their report about the use of chemical weapons.

    If their report proves that chemical weapons have been used and used by the Assad regime then that will throw another cat in amongst the pigeons.

    As I am interested in how so much strife seems to be appearing in just about every Arab state in the Middle East I plan to start a whole thread on the subject.

    Read this new thread HERE.


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Fri 30 Aug 2013, 11:50 am

    From what I have heard on this morning news Papa that second votes not going to happen. It would be a disaster for Cameron if he did because it would get defeated once again. Iraq on every one's mind, and Syria could end up in the same mess. Its about time others took the lead, and that's the will of the people. We can forgive Cameron for first vote because it gave both side of the house a chance to voice their opinions and at the same time saved face with America.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 30 Aug 2013, 12:05 pm

    It was the only way that that vote COULD go as our parliament will never take us into another war in the Middle East without a damn good reason and a lot of proof being presented first.

    They all know how Tony Blair went into Iraq behind the warmonger Bush and the damage that doing that did to his New-Labour regime and none of them want to repeat that mistake.

    After the evidence is in from the UN inspectors there will have to be another vote to either shut this down or to support America and France again, and I suggest that this might come some time late next week.

    I guess we will just have to wait and see.

    Did you have a look yet at the idea postulated by CBN news and the Israelies HERE ?


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Fri 30 Aug 2013, 12:58 pm

    Just read the link and one more very good reason to not get involved.

    Been reinstated, we will not be getting involved in attacking Syria and Germany have taken the same view. Looks like the French will be partnering the USA this time.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 12:10 pm

    While I am surprised at Obama getting so warlike so quickly I wonder if there is some benefit to America and France that might come that we know nothing about ?

    Yes, this and many wars before in the Middle East have been triggered by the hatred between the Sunnies and the Shiites and the sensible people in the British parliament know this and want nothing to do with it.

    I think that Obama is using the Kenny Everett solution:

    Round em all up, put em in a field and bomb the b******s. Twisted Evil

    For those that do not know what I am talking about watch this:


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 12:34 pm

    What a brilliant proposition. Mind you I am not surprised at the source of that info'. Coming from the Israelis that has to be accepted with a pinch of salt.

    The Kenny Everett sketch was so funny and it reminded me of that fantastic comedian. What a great loss he was to Aids.

    One of my great favourite sketches from Kenny was the Mass a chew sets ( Massachusetts ), one.

    Watch it here:
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 3:16 pm

    Obama trapped himself with crossing the red line statement he as now got to do some thing or lose face. So pleased we are not involved as much as I hate what's going on in Syria.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:06 am

    Obama got out of the trap by letting congress decide on attacking Syria. Taking a lead from Cameron. Unlike Cameron he didn't have to.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:54 am

    Yes, well spotted Hughh !

    Obama DID do a Pontious Pilate, ( the washing of the hands ), over this decision when he handed it over to the US Congress.

    We may see a different result after the UN inspectors have delivered their report.


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 12:08 pm

    The full reports not expected for 3 weeks so something will, or will not be done before then. Congress won't vote for 10 days.

    Pressure seems to be building up against Cameron to have a second vote on this issue. It looks like more harms been done to Eds reputation over this this issue than Cameron if talk on television is to believed.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 12:27 pm

    There are arguments on both sides about this very contentious issue and they will go on until something is eventually done by some, outside of Syria, force.

    I don't think that the bombing or rocketing, ( with stand-off munitions, by Western states ), of Syrian government areas is going to do much more than kill more civilians and inflame the situation even more.

    As Russia and China feel very strongly against any such use of force there might be a risk of THEM getting in on this escalation of war too.

    Then an "armageddon" scenario would not be very far off.

    As a famous comedian - who I cannot remember - once said: "Tooooo wrisky !"


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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by hughh on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 12:56 pm

    I can see Russia and China ending up breaking up the UN. They don't care a dam who gets murdered. Russia I expect they don't want to wreck their export weapons trade they have with Syria.

    I agree with you over rocket attacks they will do more harm than good.
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    Re: Syria...the smoking Gun ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 1:16 pm

    Yes too true Hughh, ( it's nice to be online with you at the same time BTW ), as even Britain has trade with these regimes that could be damaged.

    I read in today's paper that a couple of companies have been caught selling, ( legally ) to the military regime in Syria, the chemicals that can be directly used to make weaponised nerve gasses, ( especially Sarin ).

    So, even our own hands are not that clean in this respect either.

    Talking about "weapons-trade" in particular:

    Have you noticed that every and any regime right around the world that is either Communist or terrorist are armed with AK47 Kalashnikov assault weapons ?

    I once researched this phenomenon and found that the Kalashnikov is manufactured both in Russia, ( it's origin ) and also in China, where it is called The Siminov. This assault weapon is so simple to make that it has even been manufactured under licence in back street engineering shops in India and in many other countries.

    Find out more about this fascinating weapon and it's connection to the AK47, ( or its more modern version the AK74 ), HERE


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