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    Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

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    papa_umau
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    Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 06 Feb 2013, 11:22 am

    George Osborne 'will need to raise taxes to plug 64bn black hole'
    He has been dealt a major blow after the countrys leading public finance think-tank said he will need to borrow 64 billion more than he planned in 2015 because of the poor performance of the economy.

    See THIS from The Daily Telegraph.




    Surely, by now, Osborne must know that his policies are NOT working and that his austerity actions are both not only not helping the economy, but they are putting a lot of vulnerable people into a lot of pain that they can do without ?

    His promise to reduce borrowing before the last general election has now made him into a laughing stock as his borrowing climbs ever higher month on month.

    My old Irish granny used to say: "When in a hole, the best thing to do is to stop digging !" Maybe Osborne could learn something from that saying eh ?


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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 06 Feb 2013, 2:04 pm

    papa_umau wrote:
    George Osborne 'will need to raise taxes to plug 64bn black hole'
    He has been dealt a major blow after the countrys leading public finance think-tank said he will need to borrow 64 billion more than he planned in 2015 because of the poor performance of the economy.

    See THIS from The Daily Telegraph.




    Surely, by now, Osborne must know that his policies are NOT working and that his austerity actions are both not only not helping the economy, but they are putting a lot of vulnerable people into a lot of pain that they can do without ?

    His promise to reduce borrowing before the last general election has now made him into a laughing stock as his borrowing climbs ever higher month on month.

    My old Irish granny used to say: "When in a hole, the best thing to do is to stop digging !" Maybe Osborne could learn something from that saying eh ?

    Papa, from the outset, the Tory's have used the deficit cutting as a cover to roll back the State and the welfare State because they dont believe in either.

    And it's this fact that is missing from interviews with media pundits.

    It's my bet that when the Labour party win the next general election, the deficit will be even high than it is now.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 07 Feb 2013, 1:09 pm

    Not being an economist, I don't know what precisely should be done to restart the economy, other than what is already being said, that Osborne is using the wrong approach to the stimulating of the economy.

    What he is doing is having very little effect on the basic economy and even with the massive austerity measures he has in place, nothing that should be stimulated, like jobs and wages, ( which would inject more money into the economy ), is, in fact, in force.

    He has bankers and economists from all over the world attempting to tell him to change direction but he is just not listening to anybody other than his backbenchers and the powerful 1922 committee that these back-benches contain.

    The "welfare state" and "the role of the state" which you keep harping on about are only two points that need to be looked at and fixing those flaws would only go a small way towards fixing Britain's economy.

    The nation's debts ARE important and it would be great if Osborne could get borrowing down, but he just does not have the tools at his disposal to do this job and unless he changes direction the deficit is going to be just as large as it was when the coalition inherited it from New-Labour.

    Whatever the reason, Osborne seems to have blinkers on and until he gets them off and really views the wood instead of staring at the trees he is going to fail as Chancellor.


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    zathrus
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 07 Feb 2013, 1:35 pm

    Osborne is a chancer and just about everybody that knows anything about him and his austerity actions will know this.

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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 07 Feb 2013, 3:16 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Not being an economist, I don't know what precisely should be done to restart the economy, other than what is already being said, that Osborne is using the wrong approach to the stimulating of the economy.

    What he is doing is having very little effect on the basic economy and even with the massive austerity measures he has in place, nothing that should be stimulated, like jobs and wages, ( which would inject more money into the economy ), is, in fact, in force.

    He has bankers and economists from all over the world attempting to tell him to change direction but he is just not listening to anybody other than his backbenchers and the powerful 1922 committee that these back-benches contain.

    The "welfare state" and "the role of the state" which you keep harping on about are only two points that need to be looked at and fixing those flaws would only go a small way towards fixing Britain's economy.

    The nation's debts ARE important and it would be great if Osborne could get borrowing down, but he just does not have the tools at his disposal to do this job and unless he changes direction the deficit is going to be just as large as it was when the coalition inherited it from New-Labour.

    Whatever the reason, Osborne seems to have blinkers on and until he gets them off and really views the wood instead of staring at the trees he is going to fail as Chancellor.

    To re-start our economy ?

    Begin a universal council house building program. Thus putting tradesmen to work. Provide a decent level of minimum wage. Thus putting money into people pockets.

    How's that for beginners Papa ?
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:02 pm

    in relation to the house biulding program, have we not got enough empty houses in the country? do we really need to biuld more to give people work?

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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:15 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:in relation to the house biulding program, have we not got enough empty houses in the country? do we really need to biuld more to give people work?

    Sure, lets open up the empty houses as well as putting builders and other tradesmen to working on a universal council house building programme.

    bowerstoad, what you suggest would be a patchwork quilt job, what I suggest would really get our economy going, but it wont happen because the right wing Tories are economics, they are not democratic "Social" ists.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:27 pm

    I didn't suggest anything pal, I am just saying that the country is full of empty houses, why would we need to biuld more.


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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:01 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:I didn't suggest anything pal, I am just saying that the country is full of empty houses, why would we need to biuld more.


    Because, pal, we havent had any social housing policy in this country since the 80's when Thatcher stopped building council houses.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:01 pm

    Yes Ivanhoe, there are a number of ways that our stalled economy could be re-started and a national affordable house-building programme would certainly be one of them.

    As far as the using of presently empty houses is concerned.....

    That is already being done to a degree, but of course it could be done much more efficiently if the greedy hand of the privateer landlord was taken out of the mix.

    In fact we need BOTH of these techniques used to not only help to stimulate the economy, but to provide decent housing for the many thousands of families and individuals out there that are homeless at the moment.

    You are in fact BOTH right there as there is no reason why both of these techniques should not be used side-by-side.


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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:04 pm

    surprised it only took two cmments from me to get a thatcher bash out of you potkettle.

    Why would we need to biuld new houses, when there are empty houses in the country, if there is a housing problem, put people in them, instead of biulding new ones, "it makes jobs" fair, understandable that it would make jobs, but it would just lead to more empty house. Back to the drawing board pal.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:13 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:surprised it only took two cmments from me to get a thatcher bash out of you potkettle.

    Why would we need to build new houses, when there are empty houses in the country, if there is a housing problem, put people in them, instead of building new ones, "it makes jobs" fair, understandable that it would make jobs, but it would just lead to more empty house. Back to the drawing board pal.

    Quite simply Bowsie. There are just not enough empty houses out there that are in a situation where they can replace the homes that were lost by the Thatcher axe during her "right to buy" scheme and her decimation of the council rented-sector.

    Yes our Ivanhoe does go on a bit about Thatcher, but in this respect he is dead right and this act by that crone should never be forgotten.



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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:14 pm

    ok so to solve a economic issue is to create an other?
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:16 pm

    Sorry Bowsie, but I do not understand that phrase.

    Can you elucidate a bit please.


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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:29 pm

    thought it was pretty clear to be fair.

    the suggestion that one way to creat jobs is to reintroduce a Council housing biulding scheme, to give jobs to tradesman, and to create housing for people without houses.

    Councils are already, especially in the north are cutting budgets to education, police and othe rpublic services, libaries and hospitals, so the suggestion that the councils should put money into biulding more houses would be cvreating a further financial issue where one already exist, as well as creating further empty houses with towens and city's with in the UK.

    So where do you biuld these houses? do you knock down houses in council estates to rebiuld? what do you do with the people that live in them? where do you supply the biulders for the houses? as it would be cheaper to employ eastern europeans then a british bricky, thus cancelling out the cycle of payment to be paid back in to the coffers. when the house are biult, how do you make a profit to show that it was a good choice in rebiulding a economy?

    britian doesnt need more houses, it needs people to live in the empty ones, it needs to rebiuld industry, exports and british made products to replace imported chinese or japanese electronics or automobiles.

    this will probably cause outrage but people focus on the negatives of the Thatcher regime, but sometimes you need to look at the positives the woman brought to a crumbling economy set in motion by the free spending labour party and the idiot Heath.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 09 Feb 2013, 12:35 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:thought it was pretty clear to be fair.

    the suggestion that one way to creat jobs is to reintroduce a Council housing biulding scheme, to give jobs to tradesman, and to create housing for people without houses.

    Councils are already, especially in the north are cutting budgets to education, police and othe rpublic services, libaries and hospitals, so the suggestion that the councils should put money into biulding more houses would be cvreating a further financial issue where one already exist, as well as creating further empty houses with towens and city's with in the UK.

    So where do you biuld these houses? do you knock down houses in council estates to rebiuld? what do you do with the people that live in them? where do you supply the biulders for the houses? as it would be cheaper to employ eastern europeans then a british bricky, thus cancelling out the cycle of payment to be paid back in to the coffers. when the house are biult, how do you make a profit to show that it was a good choice in rebiulding a economy?

    britian doesnt need more houses, it needs people to live in the empty ones, it needs to rebiuld industry, exports and british made products to replace imported chinese or japanese electronics or automobiles.

    this will probably cause outrage but people focus on the negatives of the Thatcher regime, but sometimes you need to look at the positives the woman brought to a crumbling economy set in motion by the free spending labour party and the idiot Heath.

    No mate that is not what I am suggesting.

    At no time did I suggest that a new council-housing building scheme should be done, even although some councils are already building more homes for rent of their own accord.

    Where these affordable homes should be built would/could either be on brownfield sites, ( of which there are now many due to the numbers of companies that have gone bust and left gap-sites ), or they could be built where the building and development people are screaming out for permission and the cash to develop.

    THIS is not the problem.....The problem is that since Thatcher, ( yes, her again ), sold most of the best of the rentable stock to the people who were sitting tenants - at a massive discount -, it is only the very poor stock that is left that either the councils or the housing associations can still have in their power to rent to the people who cannot afford to buy.

    What we are trying to do here is to produce more affordable homes either for rent or to buy that will start to solve the massive homeless problem in Britain. If the will and the money was there, ( from central government ), then not only would the homeless problem be helped but the extra homes that would be built would give the building industry many more jobs so that more earnings could be made and more income-tax could then be paid. This, in turn, would also help the economy to grow.

    Even IF the empty houses were used, ( and many of them are just not available to central or local government for this use ), there still needs to be a new-build programme started that will fill in for the vacancies that are just not there.

    Your last point about the "rebuilding of industry, exports and British made products to replace imported Chinese or Japanese electronics or automobiles", sounds great, but in fact the free-market system that Thatcher used to pray to is what is making this thing impossible to do.

    We simply cannot compete with the Chinese or the Japanese or many more of the low-waged countries because our cost of living dictates that we have to pay enough money to our workers so that they can subsist in this expensive West.

    THAT, is another problem altogether


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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:06 pm

    Take me for instance.

    I am not homeless and I work hard for a living, but I would love to get out of this crappy flat and be able to stop paying such a ridiculously high price to my very rich and greedy private landlord. ( I hope he is not reading this pirat ).

    We could do with, in Britain, a thing they have in many places in America: Protected rents so that the private landlords cannot charge more than what is deemed to be a fair rent for the standard and quality of the accommodation offered.

    In Britain it seems that the free market system allows private landlords to charge what they can get from the desperate people that have no choice but to rent from them.

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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:13 pm

    Angie baby wrote:Take me for instance.

    I am not homeless and I work hard for a living, but I would love to get out of this crappy flat and be able to stop paying such a ridiculously high price to my very rich and greedy private landlord. ( I hope he is not reading this pirat ).

    We could do with, in Britain, a thing they have in many places in America: Protected rents so that the private landlords cannot charge more than what is deemed to be a fair rent for the standard and quality of the accommodation offered.

    In Britain it seems that the free market system allows private landlords to charge what they can get from the desperate people that have no choice but to rent from them.

    """In Britain it seems that the free market system allows private landlords to charge what they can get from the desperate people that have no choice but to rent from them"".

    Angie baby. PRECISELY. The whole of the Thatcher/Major, Blair, Brown years was dedicated to selfishness and greed. And now we are all picking up the price of it all.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:21 pm

    Hi Ivanhoe.

    Does that suggest that the "Thatcher/Major, Blair, Brown years" means that we cannot expect any change in the future ?

    There has to be some change even within the free market system as if they can do it in America, where the free market system runs everything, surely we can expect better treatment too ?

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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:56 pm

    Angie baby wrote:Hi Ivanhoe.

    Does that suggest that the "Thatcher/Major, Blair, Brown years" means that we cannot expect any change in the future ?

    There has to be some change even within the free market system as if they can do it in America, where the free market system runs everything, surely we can expect better treatment too ?

    Hi Angie baby, We should be like Europe, they are not market obsessed, they have State intervention, unlike America and here in Britain.

    The other difference between England America, and the EU, is that EU workers pay higher income tax rates than workers in the States and America.
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    Re: Osborne will have to borrow an extra 64 billion.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 10 Feb 2013, 1:01 pm

    Even as a Europhile I don't think that "Europe" per-se escapes from the free-market-system as any Western country that wants and needs to compete with the world has to apply this system as hard as it can.

    Yes, there are more essential services run by the state in many - if not all - of the European countries but be certain-sure that the free market economy works just as effectively there as it does here or in America.

    Sometimes you try to make Europe sound like some kind of a utopia, but you can rest assured that it is nothing of the sort and that all of the governments in the European states fully embrace the free-markets just as well as the rest of the free West do.

    Free-market economics was NOT Thatcher's idea, ( as you seem to think ), even although she did fully embrace it during her reign of power.


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