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    What do you think folks ?

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    bowsertoad
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by bowsertoad on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:20 pm

    Well said Papa, it is the problem with the English, which though my father is from Cheapside, dundee, my mother is a yorkshire woman and I have never lived in scotland (though I do support the tartan army when it comes to the old enemies) I am a englishman. IT is the tendency of a Englishman to know best, and to be the one to say, "you should do it this way". I think that wales and Scotland, and especially Northern Ireland should be allowed to go it alone, they have not had the oppotunity before, and by the looks of former English governed countries are doing well,

    Republic of Ireland, India, USA and so on.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:36 pm

    Thanks Bowsie !

    I do believe that "Britain" is a democratic country but those that know about countries that do not fully practice what they preach, insofar as Democracy is concerned, will know that true democracy has to be fought for if it is to remain strong.

    Just look - for example - at the way that the people of the Basque country have been treated by Spain and France even although that region has been asking for independence for many hundreds of years.

    See THIS

    This denial of nationality has spawned the cruel terrorist group ETA, which would not have happened if The Basques had been given their freedom when they asked for it.

    I would hope that Scotland would not have to suffer that kind of repression forced upon it by England and London if this situation was to come to a head.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total


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    bowsertoad
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by bowsertoad on Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:47 pm

    Now then Papa, you know the repression of Scotland was done in the 10th-16th century, it doesnt need to be done any more. Basque is a uniqiue example, and one that is not well known in the world, people look at tibet as it is given more air time in mass media. When it comes to Basque, all people know is ETA and bombs. the same as in Northern Ireland, Personally, I believe that to be British upper lip there, not wanting to lose something that rightly wasnt theirs.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 11:01 am

    I hope I am not lecturing when I say that the cause of "Nationalism" has been a cause that has been fought over in many many countries of the past and when any of these countries are denied their nationalist right by parent countries they often revert to terrorism, as a last resort.

    Even the Scots have their own nationalistic terrorist group and they are known as The Scottish Nationalist Liberation Army, or, ( SNLA ), and they have already been proscribed by the London government. They are said to no longer exist, but I think that they are just waiting to see what happens when and if the London government allow a referendum or not on the subject of Scottish Independence.

    Incidentally, that is supposed to happen today !( You will probably see it in tonight's news ).

    I must make clear that even as a Nationalist I do not condone, in any way, terrorism for any reason, and I would hope that the SNLA stay dead forever.

    There is one good thing to come out of this and that is that at least the people of Scotland are going to have a say on the subject of seceding from the United Kingdom where they DID NOT have any say when the Union of the crowns was originally made.


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    bowsertoad
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by bowsertoad on Wed 16 Jan 2013, 11:15 am

    papa_umau wrote:

    There is one good thing to come out of this and that is that at least the people of Scotland are going to have a say on the subject of seceding from the United Kingdom where they DID NOT have any say when the Union of the crowns was originally made.

    Well said papa, I didnt know about the SNLA, I am assuming instead of bombing people the warp them in batter and deep fry them (poor joke)

    It will be interesting to see where the vote falls, and by what margin, I dont think it will be a yes today, but it will be one step closer.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:17 pm

    You may have noticed that this bill hit a stumbling block in The Lords yesterday instead of going right back for ratification at the commons.

    This will not stop the bill from progressing but it may delay it a bit.

    I expect that the final outcome will be reached in the next few days or weeks.

    "Wrap them in batter and deep fry them"......Funnnnneeeee ! lol!

    Funnies aside.....Do I detect by your tone that you support the "YES" campaign up here in Scotland ?


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    bowsertoad
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by bowsertoad on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:21 pm

    Papa, I support it completely, I believe that it would be financially beneficial to the government to have wales, Scotland and northern Ireland as independent nations. Practically, I dont think it will work, and I think the lack of export trade from wales Scotland and northern Ireland will not allow them to support a self economy, I think without the ports, ship building, mining and other trades that made countries like the above three important to the United kingdom, they wil,l struggle to support the populous, unless they follow Icelandic lead.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:27 pm

    Yes, there is certainly a lot of fine details to be worked out but generally I think that Scotland has enough resources and enough abilities to successfully "go-it-alone".

    As said before, if many other small and even smaller states in the world like Scotland are able to work successfully then there is no reason why Scotland cannot do that too.

    The central treasury in London has been bleeding Scotland dry of resources ever since the Union of the Crowns and many of us up here now think that we should be emancipated and at last responsible for our own destiny.


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    bowsertoad
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by bowsertoad on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:36 pm

    The thing you also need to look at papa, is the level of unemployment and state dependent incomes within Scotland, because if independence is granted, it would be a crippling situation.

    IK agree that there are other countries smaller or on par with Scotland that do well as a independent country, but their econmy and people are not as pampered as the ones in the UK. Now please dont take this as "he thinks all benefit recipents are spongers" as this is not the case, but there are a large amount of people reliant on the state to help them live within the UK, and unfortunately a high level of this is in scotland and the north of england.

    Scotland need to have its ship yards re biult as viable business, it needs to have the income from the north sea to support it self,as tourism and shortbread export will not support a country.


    again apologies for the cheap joke.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:54 pm

    Yes, as I said...."there are a lot of details still to be worked out", but I think that so long as an emancipated Scotland is no longer a responsibility of England or the rest of the Union, I see no reason why we will not be able to work out the solutions to our own troubles.

    Once we are able to raise and keep ALL of the taxation that at present goes to the London treasury I am sure that our government will be able to spend it much more wisely than it is spent at the moment.

    We will not know until we actually start to do it and by that time we are going to have to either sink or swim by our own volition.

    A scary future, of that there is no doubt, but I think that the canny Scots are more than up for the job.


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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:56 pm

    If Scotland splits off from the rest of Britain-who ya gonna raid for foodstuffs? They don't produce enough food to feed the population. Are you willing to pay a minimum of double for imported veg? Forget the rest of it, think of what foods you produce in suffcient quantity to trade. Yes there's wool and sheep and beef and etc but it's not enough to support yourselves.
    He who does not study history is bound to repeat it.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: What do you think folks ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 1:11 pm

    You really are against the idea aren't you Tuppence ?

    I am not going to get bogged down with ideas like that as that thought is just another one of the problems that we will have to sort out under our own volition.

    There are many more such problems that we are going to have to deal with too.

    We just want the chance !


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