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    so very true !

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    jim

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    so very true !

    Post by jim on Wed 02 Jan 2013, 3:59 pm

    We are not ruled directly by Parliament,but by minor officials bureaucrats of all descriptions, safely embraced in the arms of the civil service, with immunity from dismissal and nice, inflation-proof pensions.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: so very true !

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 03 Jan 2013, 12:02 pm

    I don't know if the word "ruled" is the right one even if most of the daily practicalities of government ARE carried out by the un-appreciated Civil Service.

    The rules for life in a democratic country are made by our democratically elected parliament and government and we have the police and the courts to ensure that these laws are obeyed.

    While I will agree that these laws are not always as correct as they should or could be, I do think that it is up to us to change things if we do not like what is going on in our names.

    NOW... as far as a decent pension is concerned: I see no reason why the people who work hard in the private services and companies and corporations cannot get a level of pension that we, ( me in particular ), get from working in the civil service. After all, we have earned these decent pensions by our many years of effort in those jobs.

    Be sure that taking pension-cash away from the public servants on retirement will NOT put a penny more into the pockets of the private sector workers.

    I DO totally agree that some of the salaries and pensions given to the fat-cats at the top of the public and the private services are ridiculously high and here there is a great need for a degree of fairness, in comparison, needing to be applied.


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    jim

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    Re: so very true !

    Post by jim on Thu 03 Jan 2013, 2:42 pm

    Council workers paid in only 1 for every 4 paid out in town hall pensions last year.

    Nearly 6billion of the 8billion cost of the scheme came from taxpayers, an official report has found. Council workers stumped up just 1.8billion.

    The research undermines claims that the public employees deserve special treatment because they pay for their own retirement benefits in a sustainable manner.

    The figures released by the Communities Department showed that in the financial year that ended last March the Local Government Pensions Scheme put just 1.84billion toward maintaining staff pensions.

    The states contribution was 5.92billion.

    The generous final salary pensions now largely denied to workers in private businesses are enjoyed by council workers from bin men and canteen staff to social workers and planning officials.

    The cost of town hall pensions to the public is equivalent to 386 a year for every household paying the benchmark Band D council tax.

    Details of council pension costs came as Communities Secretary Eric Pickles prepared to finalise a deal with unions to try to rein in pensions spending.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: so very true !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 04 Jan 2013, 12:12 pm

    Believe me Jim, I do see what you are getting at.

    The thing is that even although it seems that these public sector workers are not paying very much into their occupational pension schemes, I think that you are looking at this the wrong way.

    Let me try to explain this thought from my point of view:

    Many, if not all, public service employees get their pension as a built-in part of their wages - before they pay anything out - and that is why these jobs are so valued by their members.

    The branch of the Civil Service that I worked in for twenty-two years made clear that the so-called "free" pension that I would get on retirement would have been paid for as part of my salary package over those twenty-two years. It was NOT in fact "free" at all as it was all part of the full contract of employment - up front.

    SO.... it does not matter where this money comes from in the first place so long as it is paid for by somebody, and in some way.

    In my estimation the private industries do NOT want to include any such decent occupational pension in the employees wages as they want the source of this money to come AFTER the lesser-value wage has been paid. ( By this saving expense and increasing profits ).

    The fact that ALL salaries and pensions etc' for public employees come direct from the treasury, ( the taxpayers ), is not anything that should restrict these employees from getting decent wages and decent pensions as that is the way that it has always been done. ( That is why jobs in the Civil Service are seen as high-value jobs and why a lot of people want them ).

    In other words, if you work for the government, you get paid by the government and all of that cash comes from the taxpayers.

    What needs to happen here, in my estimation, is that the private sector needs to bring their salaries and occupational pensions UP to the levels that the public services enjoy instead of trying to drag the public services and workplace pensions DOWN to the levels of the private sector. If you work in the private sector then that is what you should be fighting for instead of trying to deny the public services employees the decent wages and pensions that they already get.


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    Re: so very true !

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