Ripped-Off Britain

* THE ONE AND ONLY, TRUE AND ORIGINAL, 'RIPPED-OFF' WEBSITE ON THE INTERNET *

SEE THE NEW "INTRODUCE YOURSELF" THREAD: HERE - - and - - LOOK AT OUR NEW "CAR-BUYING GUIDE" SUB-FORUM: HERE

    ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Share
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 1:06 pm

    PEOPLE with incurable conditions are being forced to undergo multiple checks in order to retain their benefits.

    NEARLY 20,000 cancer sufferers have been forced to return for repeated fit-for-work tests carried out by controversial French firm Atos.

    The company have a 100million-a-year contract with the UK government to test whether disabled people are capable of working.

    The government say the scheme helps weed out cheats, but the Department of Work and Pensions are asking people with incurable, life-threatening conditions to undergo multiple checks in order to keep benefits.

    New figures reveal that 18,450 cancer sufferers have had to undergo multiple tests between October 2008 and February this year.

    Another 2320 people with multiple sclerosis have been through repeated work capability assessments as well as hundreds of others with Parkinsons and dementia.




    I just wonder how low is this government-sponsered lot are going to stoop in order to earn their 100million a year blood-money ?

    Even the government's Business Secretary, Vince Cable, is concerned that more cuts on benefits could "impact on poor families" as ministers are locked in talks about slashing 10billion more from the welfare bill.


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......



    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Thu 22 Nov 2012, 9:24 am

    As an ex copper, you should be ashamed of yourself. It is the law that is wrong not the upholders of it. Atos are just doing their job which is weeding out false benefit claims of which there are many. You are just stirring up trouble.

    Clapco
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 22 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm

    Firstly I am NOT an "ex-copper" and even while I am not I do stand up for the rule of law and it's enforcement.

    THAT is not the issue here; the issue is that the interpretation of the rules unfairly applied by this government and enforced by the ATOS hit-men are heavily weighted against the people on benefits so that many of the people who were previously accepted to be too sick to work are now - after this shifting of the goalposts - being ruled as FIT.

    Just stop for a second and read the list of groups AGAIN that are being called back time after time for re-examination that in any kind of measure of humanity should be left alone so that they do not have these kinds of stress laid on top of the stresses that their illnesses already dictate they are suffering.


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......


    avatar
    zathrus
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 2545
    Points : 6089
    Reputation : 97
    Registration date : 2008-08-21

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by zathrus on Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:45 am

    You're wasting your effort there Paps as Clapco is never going to see reason as far as the abuse of the disabled is concerned.

    Mind you, he must know that because you always have the high-ground you beat him every time when he takes the side of the abusers out there.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 9:20 am

    You have me wrong Zath - I have done a lot of work for the disabled and care passionately about righting wrongs. What I do not share with Paps is his blind faith in public services and his contempt for anything corporate. The reality is generally somewhere inbetween, and best person to decide what your money should be spent on is you. He doesn't have the high ground, but I have the middle ground and love shooting down cranks and extremists. In this case the rules are generated by the public sector, applied by the private and yet all Paps can do is throw insults. What about the thousands of false claims where people are perfectly capable of working yet consider it acceptable to fleece the taxpayer by claiming disability allowance so they can sit at home watching TV all day? He is curiously silent about them.....

    Clapco

    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 12:39 pm

    That opinion just goes to show how your mind is biased against the disabled and the vulnerable out there and simply proves to me that people like you, with your attitudes, should NEVER be allowed into any position of power.

    Wrong is always wrong and no amount of bluster will ever make it right !

    Oh and... I do not have any "blind faith" in public services as I am well aware that public services can go as wrong as private services do if the wrong people are in charge.

    It is the basic rule that says that the public and not-for-profit ethic is much better at running essential services than the naked profit motive ever will be able to do.

    Essential services are, or should be, all about the service itself but every time that the profit motive gets in the way of providing such services the service always suffers.

    That is not opinion; it is FACT !


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......



    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 12:51 pm

    I rest my case Zath - how Paps gets from my post to his defies logic. I work for balance and can see both sides of the argument. He, quite simply, can't and just resorts to personal insults.

    There is no basic rule that the public and not for profit ethic is better at running essential services - indeed the opposite is often true. Food, fuel, IT, Telecoms, construction and private transport are all well provided for by the private sector. The collapse of communism has proved the inability of central planning to provide even a simple service. At least I can go to my local supermarket and find the shelves are full without any civil servant input whatsoever.

    Clapco
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 1:28 pm

    I will try to break it down to the bare bones, just to make it easier for you to understand:

    I am sure that if just about any person that is using the privatised essential services these days was to be asked how they well they thought that these services were being run - especially the franchised TOCs - we would see complaint after complaint coming from the service-users about high expense, lack of efficiency and dependability and even cleanliness.

    All of these qualities have been seen to suffer from the profit motive in the past as wherever this profit motive holds sway it is the bottom line that is always the most important interest as far as the private companies are concerned.

    This is not OPINION, this is fact !

    Good management does not always have to originate from behind the profit motive as all that management needs in order to be good management is that the managers should know their job and be made to do it correctly. This ethic is NOT in the preserve of the private sector.


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......



    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 8:47 am

    Ah now you finally get to the point - TOCs.

    The last time I got on a train it was a brand new state of the art carriage, warm in winter, cool in summer. It arrived on time, departed on time but was expensive. Given the journey time into central London it was worth it but I could have got a bus - also from a private company - for 1/3 the price.

    I would do it again without hesitation - compared to the old draughty BR slam door carriages give me privatisation any time.

    Next?

    CC
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 03 Dec 2012, 12:48 pm

    Then I can tell you that that is not regularly the case as each of the TOCs have their own idea of what is new, good, dependable, or "warm in winter and cool in summer" and that is EXACTLY what is wrong with having twenty-five disparate train operating services across Britain.

    What is worse is that there is no real joined-up or co-ordinated planning between these different companies and in many cases connections between these trains, that should offer a smooth journey from start to finish, only succeed in these connections not being made and the resulting loss of time spent waiting for such connections to eventually be made makes for many miserable journeys.

    When I have to actually point this out to you it seems to me that you not only don't use such trains or you know very little about their awful services !

    NOW..... back to the treadstart topic please !


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......


    avatar
    bowsertoad
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Number of posts : 205
    Points : 1960
    Reputation : 17
    Registration date : 2012-11-28
    Location : Sheffield

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by bowsertoad on Mon 03 Dec 2012, 3:48 pm

    I have a question in relation to this, is it only People who are suffering Serious illness that are going through these test and questions, or is it the whole country sign off on sick that they are working through?

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Mon 03 Dec 2012, 3:49 pm

    People on the sick Bowsie

    Clapco
    avatar
    bowsertoad
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Number of posts : 205
    Points : 1960
    Reputation : 17
    Registration date : 2012-11-28
    Location : Sheffield

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by bowsertoad on Mon 03 Dec 2012, 3:56 pm

    right right, well then for me it is a required thing to be done in the UK, I understand that there are points of extreme which Papa has pointed out, but you have people on the sick who require this help, and you have people on the sick who are taking the micheal out of the system due to the poor measurements put in place by the previous government.

    the Fact of the matter is, the country is skint, their are people taking the micheal out of the system, and this way they are going about it, is not ethically amazing, but is probably the only way to determine if the people sing off on the sick are actually sick. They should probably of worked it the other way, leaving the people with saerious illness to last, and working through the ones who could work, and pay into the coffers.

    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 04 Dec 2012, 1:32 pm

    I think that we have to look more closely at this subject to understand it properly:

    There has been people - in their millions - on sickness benefits and disability benefits for many many years, and even one past Tory government actually encouraged this to happen so that the unemployment figures might be massaged by dropping when people moved over to incapacity benefit instead. Now they find that the whole welfare bill is a monster that takes a large chunk out of the total tax-take that we all pay and now the Tories - in particular - are under terrible pressure from their backbenchers to try to recoup a lot of that money.

    For that reason we are finding that this task, ( which had been previously done by the public sector ), had to be passed over to a private company to do what they would consider to be done "properly".

    This goalpost-shifting policy has in fact caught many thousands of genuinely sick and disabled people in this wide net that should be simply left alone.

    The terror that this ATOS company has brought to the sick and disabled people is now generating a hatred for it that is growing along the same lines that are already attached to the Child Support Agency, ( CSA )

    Maybe it is time for this cruel government to stop hiring hit-men privateers to do jobs that they do not have the courage to do themselves !


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......



    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Tue 04 Dec 2012, 3:59 pm

    Any evidence to support your theories? At the very least the drivers for saving money come from the treasury, NOT the backbenchers. Unless you have proof of course that they sit in on every meeting (must be a tight squeeze!)

    Yes it is wrong that 'false positives' occur, but that is the fault of the ministry not the people that apply the rules. The CSA may be unpopular but is that only because parents are being made to pay what is due?

    Spare us the constant lecturing of your communistic wish list Paps - it never worked then and it won't now.

    Clapco
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:31 am

    Avoiding your ridiculous indictment that all I say is driven by a "Communist" desire...

    I have to say that before we can evaluate what is going on here we have to decide who is actually to blame for so many "false positive" decisions coming about.

    Yes, it was a New-Labour government that started this privatised programme but it was the Tories that grabbed it and run with it with so much glee. It was also the Tories that re-drew the cut-off boundaries for the definitions about who should be able to work and who should not and it is this new definition that is causing so much heartache in the disabled persons field.

    Be certain-sure that this whole policy is a political one and it IS the influence that the hard-line back-benchers bring to the system that makes it so cruel

    Cameron knows that his political life is dependent upon his pleasing the members of the extremely powerful 1922 committee, ( most of whom come from the back benches ), and this is what drives him to break from his new moderate-Tory style ).

    In other words, we cannot just - as you usually do - set this problem in some simplistic framework when the whole obscene scandal is very complicated.


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......


    avatar
    bowsertoad
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Number of posts : 205
    Points : 1960
    Reputation : 17
    Registration date : 2012-11-28
    Location : Sheffield

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by bowsertoad on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 10:56 am

    Just to clarify, I am not a communist, due to my understanding of world history, and the destructive power of the communism ideals. I only brought it to the forum to answer the question raised earlier in the discussion from IVANHOE.

    In relation to the last comment from you Papa, Currently the Government are clutching at straws, and they have been since day one of the CONDEM'd collalition. Theyu have certain issues that they have to address, and a certain care about doing it in the right manner. They have employed a external group to go through the sickness benefit recievers, as you stated earlier because they dont really care about the british public, the do care about cutting cost, and saving a pound where they can. Unfortunatly the area that ATOS are focusing, or have been hired to focus on, is a sensitive area, but there are people in the UK that arent intitled to this benefit, and it is these people that have lead to this type of "inqusition" to be put in place. The people to blame can be shared, and to focus on the government as the main point of blame is a little bit blind to the state this country is in with piss takers. If the system worked in the manner that hundreds of critically ill and disabled people follow, and it didnt allow for pisstaker to take advantage of "free Money", no matter which political party came topower, we wouldnt have this inquistion type of investigation, thus no need to rock the boat, or to upset a the demographic that should be benefiting from the benefit in question.

    In relation to Cameron having to please the back benchers, he also has to answer to a country that already hate him because of leaders that came before him. He is incharge of a crumbling nation, who have a passion for the complaint and grumble, while trying to appease the rich people who sit behind him saying rubarb. We should not Put the blame directly on Camerons door, yes i know, this is contriversial to be taking the side of a guy whos face loks like a foot, and has no independent thought about the welfare of the country, but he is just one Cog in a large machine.

    This is probably just waffle, and will be ripped apart, but it is where I stand currently.
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:12 am

    You are right about most of that Bowsie but there are a couple of points that I want to take up with you:

    You suggest that it is because there are sickness benefit cheats out there that the definitions for qualification for benefits had to be tightened up and while I also agree with that I have to say that now that these definitions are so hard-line there are many innocents that are being caught up in this new and very wide net.

    The shifting of the qualifications definitions has now started to hammer many hundreds of people that used to be able to get the benefits that they needed and deserved and because of this situations this private company are now generating many thousands of expensive appeals that the innocents have to go through to get to keep the benefits that they need. Almost ALL of these appeals are upheld which proves to me that the qualification definitions are just too draconian to ever work efficiently and that they need to be toned down by a long way if they are to become fair once again.

    Your description of these assessments as some kind of an "inquisition" is right on the ball as that is what these interviews have become across the board.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......



    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:15 am

    "a guy whose face looks like a foot" Brilliant Bowsie!

    I think you sum it up quite nicely - I was not calling you a communist but our friend Papaumau. He seems to think everything is politically motivated if it is a Tory idea whereas the truth is generally somewhere in the middle.

    I have been trying to get this through to him for many years now without success

    Paps - I quote one of your favourite idioms back at you - "those that have nothing to hide have nothing to fear"

    Clapco
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:25 am

    Those that are aware KNOW that just about everything we do in Britain is connected with or to politics and to think otherwise is not only naive but it is rather silly.


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......


    avatar
    bowsertoad
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Number of posts : 205
    Points : 1960
    Reputation : 17
    Registration date : 2012-11-28
    Location : Sheffield

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by bowsertoad on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:29 am

    "those that have nothing to hide have nothing to fear"

    this is a apt statement, but i dont think it is fear that Papa is getting at, it is the treatment of people that are claiming a benefit put in place to help them with their illness, or disabillity.

    @papa- the country for the last decade has been milked by the "BENEFIT CHEAT", the problem we have is the people that are now in charge, do not relate to the british public in a manner that would see a friendlie approach to the problem, they simply do not care about the numbers(people) on a sheet but car about the on the sheet. It is easier for the government to deal with aftermath then the actuallity, so they have hired this company to solve the problem they couldnt be bothered to fix themselfs.

    I believe that it is required, and would need to be done accross all types of benefits, but it should be a investigation, and not a inquistion, as there are people within this country that need this income, as they have the inabillity to earn a income from other areas.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Wed 05 Dec 2012, 11:39 am

    Paps do you check under the bed at night for little green men?

    The world really doesn't work as you think any more. Sorry m8

    Clapco
    avatar
    papa_umau
    Field Marshal
    Field Marshal

    Number of posts : 12186
    Points : 18372
    Reputation : -25
    Registration date : 2008-08-23
    Age : 73
    Location : Scotland

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:48 am

    Bowsie.....

    While there is no doubt that there are a number of "benefit-cheats" that add cost to the welfare bills I think that by vilifying and demonising all of these people as work-shy cheats many people now in Britain are thinking that just about everybody on benefits are cheats.

    Of course, this is not true as the rules originally set by government are what attracts people to look for benefits where they might not really need them. Now they have decided that these rules are too soft and they are tightening them up so that they have started to catch many hundreds if not thousands of people that DO need these benefits.

    The proof that I am right about this one is easily supported by the very large numbers of claimants that are forced to appeal the ATOS decisions - AND WIN !


    _________________
    Best of regards

    Papa......



    Guest
    Guest

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Guest on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:53 am

    I don't believe he was - he was just saying there are benefit cheats that need to be pursued. You are the one claiming vilification - Bowsie is the one being sensible.

    Clapco
    avatar
    bowsertoad
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Number of posts : 205
    Points : 1960
    Reputation : 17
    Registration date : 2012-11-28
    Location : Sheffield

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by bowsertoad on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:57 am

    @Papa-I wasnt saying everyone on benefits are Cheats,my Point being that it is the minority ruining it for the majority that require and depend on the benefits given to them from the country. Please do not think that I am against benefits, I am all for them, as long as they are going to the right people that qulify for them. I fully believe that the government are doing what is required, just going about it in the wrong way.

    Thank you Clapco for seeing that.

    Sponsored content

    Re: ATOS hitmen call back people with incurable illnesses.

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun 20 Aug 2017, 6:57 am