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    Why we should stay in Europe

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    Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Guest on Sun 11 Nov 2012, 9:17 am

    Our mainland cousins clearly lead the way when it comes to morality

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/9655537/Europes-biggest-brothel-complete-with-coach-parking-to-open-in-Austria.html

    Why is it that here on our little island we are unable to discuss matters sexual without going into a fit of giggles?

    Here is a massive new potential source of taxation and employment - I commend it to the house!

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 11 Nov 2012, 2:38 pm

    While I don't have any stance against organised and government controlled prostitution I do not think that it should become part of the normal high-street availability.

    As long as the women and men that chose to do this for an income are protected from the pimps and crooks and drug traffickers and disease I see no reason why consenting adults should not be provided with this service in a safe if "off-broadway" environment.

    Again it is about CHOICE and I see no reason why some religious extremist should force me or anybody else to do anything that they dictate is the right way to live.

    Morals and ethics - in my opinion - are not in the sole reserve of the religions or the puritans !


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    Stay in Europe

    Post by Technician on Sun 11 Nov 2012, 8:14 pm

    hi all,

    Hi Clapco. a good point that, interesting and I tend to agree.

    However, do not confuse that with being 'in Europe'. We are in Europe, and have been trading with Europe for thousands of years.

    My argument is with the EU as an organisation. If you want to examine 'morals' ask yourself whie the EU auditors have failed to sign off the books for the last 18 years. If that happened in a business of yours or mine we would be investigated, and probably be in prison by now.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 17 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm

    What was it that the soldiers used to say during the last war ?

    Was it: "Sheep being led by donkeys" or something ?
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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 18 Nov 2012, 12:43 pm

    Angie.....

    You are dead right - as usual - that we are "sheep being led by donkeys". I only wish that we would lose the "sheeple" tag, that Tuppence usually corectly uses, as if we did the donkeys that are supposed to be leading us would not get away with half of what they do.

    Technician.....

    Of course you are correct too that we have been "IN" Europe for a very long time and all that we need to do is to, whilst we continue to pick their brains, afterwards concentrate on trying to fix that terribly flawed entity.

    In other words; there is a lot of good stuff going on in Europe that we here in Britain can learn from including their totally grown-up view of sexuality.


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 18 Nov 2012, 9:15 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Angie.....

    You are dead right - as usual - that we are "sheep being led by donkeys". I only wish that we would lose the "sheeple" tag, that Tuppence usually corectly uses, as if we did the donkeys that are supposed to be leading us would not get away with half of what they do.

    Technician.....

    Of course you are correct too that we have been "IN" Europe for a very long time and all that we need to do is to, whilst we continue to pick their brains, afterwards concentrate on trying to fix that terribly flawed entity.

    In other words; there is a lot of good stuff going on in Europe that we here in Britain can learn from including their totally grown-up view of sexuality.

    Papa, im afraid that largely we British have infantile minds and we are largely introspecive.
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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 12:17 pm

    Again Ivanhoe, that statement of "we British have infantile minds" is far too stereotypical for me to support as even although I agree that many of the electorate are easily led, ( like sheep ? ), many of them still do make up their minds via careful thought about where to lay that cross.

    I believe that that is why the politicos work so hard to try to persuade the vitally important floating voters that it is a good idea to float over to their side of the arena.

    As usual, I think that I have a greater faith in the British electorate than you seem to have even IF some of them are certainly very sheep-like in manner.


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 12:22 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Again Ivanhoe, that statement of "we British have infantile minds" is far too stereotypical for me to support as even although I agree that many of the electorate are easily led, ( like sheep ? ), many of them still do make up their minds via careful thought about where to lay that cross.

    I believe that that is why the politicos work so hard to try to persuade the vitally important floating voters that it is a good idea to float over to their side of the arena.

    As usual, I think that I have a greater faith in the British electorate than you seem to have even IF some of them are certainly very sheep-like in manner.

    Papa, then we will have to beg to differ.
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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 12:48 pm

    All I can say there is: I hope the people that might vote for you - if you ever were go into politics - do not know what you think of them as if they did you would not get many votes heading in your direction.

    What was it you said ? "we British have infantile minds" ? Wink


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 12:59 pm

    papa_umau wrote:All I can say there is: I hope the people that might vote for you - if you ever were go into politics - do not know what you think of them as if they did you would not get many votes heading in your direction.

    What was it you said ? "we British have infantile minds" ? Wink

    Papa, I believe that a huge percentage of the British people have indeed got infantile minds, with largely no political savvy at all.

    And as far as standing is concerned, at least im giving it a go, and see where the chips fall.
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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 1:24 pm

    And I say.....good for you and the best of luck, as it looks as if you are going to need it.

    I am pleased to see that you have tempered that statement by saying "a huge percentage of......" instead of "we British"....meaning, all of them ).

    The point I am trying to make here - with difficulty it would seem - is that if you believe even a "huge percentage" of the electorate are "infantile, with no political savvy at all"......then what percentage are you going to appeal to if you are of that opinion, and do you think that that "small percentage" left might think like you do ?


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 1:38 pm

    papa_umau wrote:And I say.....good for you and the best of luck, as it looks as if you are going to need it.

    I am pleased to see that you have tempered that statement by saying "a huge percentage of......" instead of "we British"....meaning, all of them ).

    The point I am trying to make here - with difficulty it would seem - is that if you believe even a "huge percentage" of the electorate are "infantile, with no political savvy at all"......then what percentage are you going to appeal to if you are of that opinion, and do you think that that "small percentage" left might think like you do ?

    I will take it as it comes when a general election is called.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Guest on Sat 24 Nov 2012, 8:30 am

    Some interesting information coming out of the recent budget setting summit



    As anyone who takes the trouble to find out the facts the British government is more than capable of f***ing things up without any help from Brussels. Everyone else can join the UK Idiots Party.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 24 Nov 2012, 12:35 pm

    I do not know what provenance that graphic has, as you didn't say where you got it from, but I am happy to believe what is contained within it.

    Quite interesting !


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 30 Nov 2012, 2:25 pm

    Parts of Europe use to control the mosty of the known world, and the moving and shaking of the global trade, but for the last 30 years, or at least in my lifetime, they have tried(and in some case successfully) to pull together the dying money men of the world into one great big melting pot. to go against the super powers in the economic world.

    For me the european uinion is a neccasarry thing, and stops wars between nieghbours, but Britain staying out of the common currency and remaining a single currency is one of the best things our government have done for the people they are meant to serve.

    If you look at what is happening currently, with Spain and Greece, we would have been a bigger part of that bail out, and we would have suffered further then we have already.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 30 Nov 2012, 4:41 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:Parts of Europe use to control the mosty of the known world, and the moving and shaking of the global trade, but for the last 30 years, or at least in my lifetime, they have tried(and in some case successfully) to pull together the dying money men of the world into one great big melting pot. to go against the super powers in the economic world.

    For me the european uinion is a neccasarry thing, and stops wars between nieghbours, but Britain staying out of the common currency and remaining a single currency is one of the best things our government have done for the people they are meant to serve.

    If you look at what is happening currently, with Spain and Greece, we would have been a bigger part of that bail out, and we would have suffered further then we have already.

    bowsertoad, The reason the British people are suffering these cuts, has nothing to do with the deficit, but everything to do with right wing Tory ideology.

    Cameron is using the deficit as a cover to cut welfare because the right wing Tory's dont believe in welfare.


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 30 Nov 2012, 5:05 pm

    could it not be said the reason why Britain as a nation is suffering from the cuts, is due to the liberal spending of the previous party in charge, spreading the funds available to thin by Following a former colony into battle, and by increasing the ease of welfare within the UK and the ability of the UK public to access the welfare that is available?

    Do you not think the cuts being brought in by "the evil torries" would not have been introduced even if Labour, the liberals or the green party, to label the Torries as the main villains in current saga of cuts is just not looking at the broader picture.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 30 Nov 2012, 5:17 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:could it not be said the reason why Britain as a nation is suffering from the cuts, is due to the liberal spending of the previous party in charge, spreading the funds available to thin by Following a former colony into battle, and by increasing the ease of welfare within the UK and the ability of the UK public to access the welfare that is available?

    Do you not think the cuts being brought in by "the evil torries" would not have been introduced even if Labour, the liberals or the green party, to label the Torries as the main villains in current saga of cuts is just not looking at the broader picture.

    bowsertoad, The broader picture is that New Thatcherite Labour had they regained power in 2010 would not have cut so far and not have cut to fast. But the end result may well have been the same.

    What Cameron is doing is sticking to his parties ideology and cutting welfare simple because the right wing dont believe in welfare, and Cameron is getting away with this under cover of reducing the deficit.



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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Guest on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 8:49 am

    Bowsie don't worry about Invanhoho - he has a fixation with Mrs Thatcher even though she left office over 20 years ago. You are absolutely right - if Bruin hadn't spent so much we wouldn't be in the mess we are in in the first place.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 3:00 pm

    As our Ivanhoe refers to Thatcher you keep referring to Brown after a lot of water has gone under the bridge.

    Let me tell you that all modern countries run on debt and this principle is the norm anywhere you look.

    All is fine when these debts do not get out of hand but all of the countries that were previously running on high levels of debt were caught out by the banking crash which brought these debts to a head.

    Even America has levels of debt that could wash over the whole of Europe, ( a large percentage of this debt is now in the hands of the Chinese BTW ), but it is big enough and ugly enough to be able to borrow it's way out of trouble while smaller economies like Greece and Spain and Ireland and Iceland - for example - were unable to borrow their way out of these problems.

    ( U.S. debt holdings in China: $1.132 trillion

    The largest foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities, China currently has $1.132 trillion in American debt, although it is down from all time highs of $1.173 trillion in July 2011 ).


    SO....Clapco.... This mantra of yours that blames Brown, ( Bruin ), for all of Britain's woes is quite simply naive and simplistic - as usual.


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by bowsertoad on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 7:49 pm

    I really believe that the labour government would have taken vince cables advisement on how to steady the ship, in the same way Osbourne has. no matter which party won in 2010, the cuts would have been done at the same speed,as the country was sinking fella, and is still barely afloat.

    I have only been aware of polotics since the age of 11, and I only have 20 years of experience, This country has not had a left wing right wing rivalry it has been the same story different colour.
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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by bowsertoad on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 7:51 pm

    Clapo, I live in sheffield, i am fully use to Thatcher hatred, she is the lady that destroyed a lively hood, and took my brothers milk, I was to young to car about this woman, and I have learnt what i know within school about the 80's, it did come on the back of a boom period, and when the country was controlled by lefties. so I will enjoy talking to ivanhoe.
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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 1:03 pm

    That's a shock to know that so much of the American debt was taken up by China. affraid

    Mind you, I think that Bowsertoad is right that it doesn't matter whoever took control after the crash as we were always going to have problems getting out of the borrowing hole that we fell deeply into after this banking crash.

    Almost all of the European nations, including Britain, fell into this hole too and they have all had a hard time of it trying to get out.

    I personally don't think that we can blame the last Labour government for this debt crisis as all they did was use the same techniques as all of the other smaller economies and governments used to run their economies by.


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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by Guest on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 1:56 pm

    Angie shame on you!

    We had a labour government for 13 years so of course they are responsible for the mess we are in. The same people took the loans, spent the cash and then raised the taxes when they realised what they had done. What made Bruin special is that he borrowed in good times - the accepted norm was to borrow in bad times to keep the economy going. As to the PIIGS they too borrowed beyond their means - don't let the debt deniers con you into believing it was not their fault. If your hubby borrows a load of money to buy a new motor and can't pay it back - you still have to help him pay it back. Or lose your house.

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    Re: Why we should stay in Europe

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 03 Dec 2012, 1:49 pm

    I think that - as usual - you are spectacularly missing the point here.

    Yes, there is no doubt that all modern economies run on debt, ( borrowing ), and that is not the issue here. The issue is attached to what they spend the money they borrow on and if under normal situations they are able to service that borrowing. ( Just like you and me and the man next door ).

    During and after the banking crash many countries that had previously successfully borrowed-to-spend were caught out and as a result their economies crashed as well.

    Some countries, like the massive America, for example, were big enough and powerful enough to be able to borrow themselves out of trouble but some of the smaller economies like ours and almost all of the others in Europe, failed to clear all of the borrowing hurdles and the international banks and the monetary fund, that were overseeing such borrowings, were forced to foreclose on these debts..... and the rest is history.


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