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    Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Tue 13 Nov 2012, 8:23 pm

    I said-"Ivanhoe, I've worked hard for 35 years and still can't afford insurance. NHS? I'd love to have the privilege of it. Even if they took the 3k a year fine out over the course of the year and used it as health insurance coverage it would still be a stretch.
    I keep hearing "America, Love it or leave it", do you have ANY idea how ironic I find that sentiment?
    Tuppence"

    Was that not response response elicited? Or were you being sarcastic in your original post? The rest of the post wasn't directed toward you, merely a general thing.
    Tuppence

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 13 Nov 2012, 8:36 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:I said-"Ivanhoe, I've worked hard for 35 years and still can't afford insurance. NHS? I'd love to have the privilege of it. Even if they took the 3k a year fine out over the course of the year and used it as health insurance coverage it would still be a stretch.
    I keep hearing "America, Love it or leave it", do you have ANY idea how ironic I find that sentiment?
    Tuppence"

    Was that not response response elicited? Or were you being sarcastic in your original post? The rest of the post wasn't directed toward you, merely a general thing.
    Tuppence

    """wow Paps!!!! 15k is Free to you? That's 15k that is gonna come out of MY pocket. Let's hear it for free!!!!"""

    Tuppence, I was responding to the above from you.

    Tax and NI contributions come of out my pocket, but they go toward the upkeep of our NHS, that's the point im making.
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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Tue 13 Nov 2012, 9:43 pm

    And if we had NHS or similar I wouldn't be 15k in debt. I don't understand how Paps sez that it's free healthcare.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 13 Nov 2012, 10:08 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:And if we had NHS or similar I wouldn't be 15k in debt. I don't understand how Paps sez that it's free healthcare.
    Tuppence

    But our NHS is funded through direct taxation. Why in your words are you 15k in debt. ?
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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Tue 13 Nov 2012, 11:53 pm

    Ah now I see your confusion. We don't have any kind of nationally funded health care at all. The 15k is what I owe for the medical care I received after my fall. I was sent to a Charity hospital but that doesn't mean free. Just means they don't charge you full rate.
    Tuppence
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:15 am

    Yes, I see what you are getting at Tuppence and my heart goes out to you as I feel that no person in this day and age should find themselves in such debt just because their government do not have the wisdom to install a fully-effective national health scheme.

    When I said "free" I was of course meaning that so long as every working person right across the country is paying into that country-wide insurance scheme, ( as in Britain ), then the medical services that are supplied and paid for by that scheme need never come out of the pockets of the sick at the front-end.

    What I am trying to say, is that whenever any of us in Britain suffer a serious accident or acquire a serious or even a not so serious illness that needs medical assistance, either from a local doctor's surgery or any one of the state-sponsored hospitals of excellence, they get it "free at point of need" and without ever having to worry where the money is coming from to pay these bills on or after the day of original need.

    This one point in particular is where the British NHS differs from the American health-care system and I think that if Obama is given the support he needs to bring in this system I see no reason why America can not also enjoy the comfort of a truly state-owned, controlled and paid for National Health System - as we do.


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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 14 Nov 2012, 11:21 am

    papa_umau wrote:Yes, I see what you are getting at Tuppence and my heart goes out to you as I feel that no person in this day and age should find themselves in such debt just because their government do not have the wisdom to install a fully-effective national health scheme.

    When I said "free" I was of course meaning that so long as every working person right across the country is paying into that country-wide insurance scheme, ( as in Britain ), then the medical services that are supplied and paid for by that scheme need never come out of the pockets of the sick at the front-end.

    What I am trying to say, is that whenever any of us in Britain suffer a serious accident or acquire a serious of even a simple illness that needs medical assistance, either from a local doctor's surgery or any one of the state sponsored hospitals of excellence, they get it "free at point of need" and without ever having to worry where the money is coming from to pay these bills on or after the day of original need.

    This one point in particular is where the British NHS differs from the American health-care system and I think that if Obama is given the support he needs to bring in this system I see no reason why America can not also enjoy the comfort of a truly National Health System - as we do.

    Papa, I sometimes wonder about the mindset of some American's ?????

    Any talk of universial health care, and they knee jerkingly think of socialised medican and link this to Russia.

    There is no logical thought whatsoever.

    The way I have always looked at things is that we maybe rich today as individuals, but tommorrow we could lose the lot in both our market based systems.

    The role of the State must apply common sense, and this is where GNP comes in. Both our countries spend billions on wars in the Far East, but when it come to our own people, if your poor, your buggered.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 11:57 am

    Are you REALLY using "logic", "common sense" and "politics" in conjunction with each other? Seriously? Wow!
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:18 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:Are you REALLY using "logic", "common sense" and "politics" in conjunction with each other? Seriously? Wow!
    Tuppence

    That's like something a cynical old sod like me might say Tuppence !

    It is obvious by that statement that you have little or no confidence in your systems of Democracy in America and that to me is very sad as I sometimes feel that we take all that we can get from our easy-Democracy in the free West - for granted.

    I think that if we were to live in a state where there was no Democracy at all or we lived in states like the African, or other third-world ones, where Democracy comes very hard and people often have to travel miles on foot and queue for days just to lay that cross, ( where they hope it will work ), we might appreciate our easy Democracy a bit better.

    Anyway, I have always thought that if we are not happy with the mob that is serving us politically we can just change it by applying that Democratic right and throwing them out on their ear.

    If you truly have only two choices between the Republicans, ( the American Tories ,) and the Democrats, ( slightly left of centre, ( I won't even try to analogise them with our Labour party ) ), then to me this means only one thing: If you are a worker or a bottom end voter then you only have one easy choice to make, and that is to vote Democrat and that vote should ensure that your Democratic president does what his political beliefs dictate he should do.


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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 12:45 pm

    papa_umau wrote:
    TuppenceHapenny wrote:Are you REALLY using "logic", "common sense" and "politics" in conjunction with each other? Seriously? Wow!
    Tuppence

    That's like something a cynical old sod like me might say Tuppence !

    It is obvious by that statement that you have little or no confidence in your systems of Democracy in America and that to me is very sad as I sometimes feel that we take all that we can get from our easy-Democracy in the free West - for granted.

    I think that if we were to live in a state where there was no Democracy at all or we lived in states like the African, or other third-world ones, where Democracy comes very hard and people often have to travel miles on foot and queue for days just to lay that cross, ( where they hope it will work ), we might appreciate our easy Democracy a bit better.

    Anyway, I have always thought that if we are not happy with the mob that is serving us politically we can just change it by applying that Democratic right and throwing them out on their ear.

    If you truly have only two choices between the Republicans, ( the American Tories ,) and the Democrats, ( slightly left of centre, ( I won't even try to analogise them with our Labour party ) ), then to me this means only one thing: If you are a worker or a bottom end voter then you only have one easy choice to make, and that is to vote Democrat and that vote should ensure that your Democratic president does what his political beliefs dictate he should do.


    Well put Papa. I cannot believe the average American does not see the absolute benefit of a comprehensive National Health system like ours, when you are ill, rich, or poor, you get treatment based on need, and not on bank balance, and this health care treatment is funding via tax payers money, and the role of the State, ie GNP.

    Just how many poor people, particularly homeless people die on the streets of New York every winter, because they have lost their jobs in their also free market system, and cant get another because they have no address, is beyond me ??????

    Dont American people understand or realise that the American's are supposed to be one giant community ?.

    And not upper class, middle class, working class, and underclass, like we Brit's have now become ?

    If American's can spend tax payers money in the Far East to kill people, they can spend tax payers money in the West, to keep their people alive.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 1:00 pm

    Not going to argue with that Ivanhoe !


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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Guest on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 1:04 pm

    Where in the Far East is that Ivanhohoho?

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 1:12 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Not going to argue with that Ivanhoe !

    Papa, I dont know who is worse, the largely childish and introverted English, or the largely childish extrovert American's ???
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 1:15 pm

    By generalising like that mate, you are potentially making yourself a helluva lot of enemies.


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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 2:46 pm

    papa_umau wrote:By generalising like that mate, you are potentially making yourself a helluva lot of enemies.

    Papa, its a fact that the most politically cultured and well educated people on this planet are the Europeans.

    They leave both us British and the American's still rocking the cradle.
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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 4:53 pm

    >> I cannot believe the average American does not see the absolute benefit of a comprehensive National Health system like ours, when you are ill, rich, or poor, you get treatment based on need, and not on bank balance, and this health care treatment is funding via tax payers money, and the role of the State, ie GNP.<<
    The American Public can easily see that BUT the appalling GREED in the medical profession won't allow for it. EVER.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 5:07 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:>> I cannot believe the average American does not see the absolute benefit of a comprehensive National Health system like ours, when you are ill, rich, or poor, you get treatment based on need, and not on bank balance, and this health care treatment is funding via tax payers money, and the role of the State, ie GNP.<<
    The American Public can easily see that BUT the appalling GREED in the medical profession won't allow for it. EVER.
    Tuppence

    Whatever we might have in our National Health Service, It has been serving we British since its founding in 1945-48.

    Treatment free at the point of need, for all, rich, or poor.

    Private health care is an expensive mugs game, because a person must pay charges for every single possible illness for it to be comprehensive.

    Because if they get sick, and they are not covered, there is no treatment.

    Britain's health care system is the best in the world.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 6:13 pm

    Can we overstate the obvious any more? Jeez.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 6:17 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:Can we overstate the obvious any more? Jeez.
    Tuppence

    Well then, why not make your health service the second best in the world ?, and stop all this socialist/communist, take over crap.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 10:18 pm

    >>Well then, why not make your health service the second best in the world ?, and stop all this socialist/communist, take over crap.<<
    OMFG!!!! You mean it's been MY choice this whole time? Damn, why didn't anyone tell me? I'll get right on that.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 10:46 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:>>Well then, why not make your health service the second best in the world ?, and stop all this socialist/communist, take over crap.<<
    OMFG!!!! You mean it's been MY choice this whole time? Damn, why didn't anyone tell me? I'll get right on that.
    Tuppence

    How very droll.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Guest on Fri 07 Dec 2012, 8:51 am

    Wow Ivanhoe - you managed a sentence without mentioning Mrs Thatcher. Well done!

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 07 Dec 2012, 10:39 am

    There is no doubt that the British National Health System, ( set deep within our welfare state ), IS the best health system in the world. The proof in this is how and why many other enlightened countries - including America - have attempted to copy it.

    Most of the Brits know exactly what side of their bread is buttered as far as our NHS is concerned and that is why the interference that the Tories here are having on this great - if a bit flawed system - is going to drive them straight into a brick wall when the next general election comes around.

    THATCHER.... ( sorry Clapco..... NOT ), tried like a bear to privatise this wonderful institution a few years ago and she was not allowed to do so and here we see David Cameron trying it all over again by the back door via the handing of all of the national insurance taxpayers cash over to private GPs to dish out.

    I will be very surprised if Cameron is allowed to do this as most of the consultants, doctors, nurses, all of their unions and all of the hospital professionals and the great majority of the British people do NOT want this to happen.


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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Guest on Fri 07 Dec 2012, 12:15 pm

    One thing always makes me chuckle about the loony left - they think that because they thought of the NHS it is 'the best in the world' when they have little or no experience whatsoever of anything else.

    The NHS is average, it costs far too much and delivers far too little. It should not be beyond improvement as knobheads like Ivanhoe imply. If you want the best medical care in the world then the USA has it for sure. If you don't want to pay for it then NHS style services are a good second choice. It doesn't mean we should have to pay through the nose for it however and our politicians (of ALL flavours) are right to try and make it more cost effective without being shouted down in a hail of abuse by conservative (small 'c') old farts that cannot embrace change.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 07 Dec 2012, 12:51 pm

    Yo IvanHole, YOU are the one who said ">>Well then, why not make your health service the second best in the world ?, and stop all this socialist/communist, take over crap.<<"
    Like I have ANY control at all over what the US gov does with HealthScare over here?
    Tuppence

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