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    Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

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    bowsertoad
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 9:39 am

    But it is axes that need to be grinded Clapco, as thatcher was evil, and she was the one that started the rot of everything in the uk.

    That is a fair comment you have posted there Ivanhoe.

    From the internet:-
    Recipe for Humble pie

    Ingredients
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Entrails of a deer -stomach .washed intestine ,liver ,etc
    beef suet to the same weight as the deer entrails shopping list
    10 cloves
    tsp mace
    tsp nutmeg
    tsp cinammon
    pinch salt
    4 pounds of currants
    half a pound of candy'd orange,lemon and citron peel
    half a pound of dates
    pastry


    How to make it
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Parboil the Humbles of a Deer
    Take all the Fat off them
    Add the Beef Suet and mince it very small together
    Season it with Cloves,Mace ,Nutmeg ,and a little Cinammon and Salt
    Put some Currants,Candy's and Dates ,stoned and sliced
    Fill your Pye and lid it
    When baked put in some Sack and serve it
    This ancient recipe is from Castle Howard in Yorkshire and is the inspiration for the saying "to eat humble pie " as only the peasants ate this pie ,the better meat being saved for the aristocrats .It was written down in 1734 .
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:20 pm

    Well said nevertheless Ivanhoe !

    The simple truth about our wonderful NHS is that it has been under attack from many directions for many years since it's inception, just after the last war, created by Aneurin Bevin, ( a left wing member of the Labour Party and government of the time ).

    It's basic idea was to present "free at point of need" healthcare to everybody in Britain which was to be financed by a generic and broadband insurance-tax that was taken from every citizen that worked.

    When it was introduced it was reckoned by many countries right across the world as the best model that could have been created to provide guaranteed healthcare at all levels and for all needs. As a result, this system of generic healthcare has been greatly respected and adopted by many of these other countries across the world, including Canada and New-Zealand.

    Since it's inception there have been many attacks on it by the people who are able to afford private healthcare, as they cannot see why they should be forced to pay for it when they don't often use it.

    ALL Conservative governments of the past have tried to dismantle it and no more than the Tory governments lead by Margaret Thatcher and more recently, David Cameron, as they are all of the opinion - rightly or wrongly that the private sector could run this health service better than the public sector can.

    We MUST fight to protect this essential service as without it we would then be destined to go the way of America, with the private insurance companies calling the shots and taking over the financing of this particular "market" - as they would see it.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    bowsertoad
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:21 pm

    so do you not have any Private health care PAPA?
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:24 pm

    >>Well said nevertheless Ivanhoe !<<
    But Ivanhoe didn't SAY anything.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:29 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:>>Well said nevertheless Ivanhoe !<<
    But Ivanhoe didn't SAY anything.
    Tuppence

    The article, Tuppence, said it all. I merely put it up.

    Tuppence, help Obama get Britain's type of health care system. You know it makes sense.

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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:31 pm

    And how pray tell am I supposed to turn something diametrically opposed to the NHS into the NHS?
    Tuppence
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:33 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:so do you not have any Private health care PAPA?

    An interesting question Bowsie, even although I am not quite sure why you asked it.

    Even as a senior middle manager in the civil service, ( now retired ), I have had a good enough income to be able to afford such private healthcare. ( The likes of Bupa and others ), I have always felt that the NHS, as it stands, will always provide me with the healthcare that I will need and have needed in the past. ( Out of interest, since a child I have had to have some SEVEN different operations for disparate needs during that time and if I had had to pay for these operations over and above what I paid in national insurance, I could not have afforded some of them.

    So, you see, even although I am not what might be called "poor" I have always supported what the poorest people in our society need to make their lives livable. The NHS is a wonderful institution and one that I think we should all fight as hard as we can for to ensure that it stays as it is.


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    papa_umau
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:43 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:And how pray tell am I supposed to turn something diametrically opposed to the NHS into the NHS?
    Tuppence

    Hmmmmm.... Nice avatar Tuppence, ( and very tasteful too ). Embarassed

    Anyway....

    I take it that you are talking about what is in place in America at the moment and not what your president hopes to introduce - eventually.

    If you are then I suggest that you should - if you really want to - find out who and if any person in power is trying to copy our, ( or even Canada's, for instance ), NHS and give them the support that they need.

    Such a sea-change in national healthcare - in a country where money-talks louder than any other thing - is going to be hard to bring about, but if enough ordinary people fight for this it is amazing what can be achieved.


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    TuppenceHapenny
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:47 pm

    That's your error here Paps, you keep thinking they are trying to get socialised medicine here. They aren't. That's not the point of Osamascare at all. It's to make certain every American has health insurance.
    As to the avatar-ta. Gotta love my dear old granny.
    Tuppence
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    bowsertoad
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:48 pm

    The NHS is a wonderful service, but it is not the same as it was in the 50's and 60's, it has been dying due to the amount of people relying on it, It is not to the people to support it, as it is a unwritten law (NI) that we do any way. the government, and not just the condem government need to pull funding from other areas, such as the war on terror to rebiuld the crumbling service. Yes maggie was a big factor in the decline, I completely agree, she was not the start of it though.

    I ask about private health care PAPA, as it seems you have not been to a Casualty or needed a stay under the pleasure of the NHS in recent times, as you are in a way looking at the NHS through rose tinted glasses.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:50 pm

    Nailed it on the head tuppence, socialised health care on the scale required in america is nigh on impossible, not only for the money men, but for ther logistics of it, we struggle in the up with 5th of the population.

    in respect to your gran tuppence, she was a attractive lady back in the day.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:58 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:That's your error here Paps, you keep thinking they are trying to get socialised medicine here. They aren't. That's not the point of Osamascare at all. It's to make certain every American has health insurance.
    As to the avatar-ta. Gotta love my dear old granny.
    Tuppence

    Tuppence, there is an old saying, where there is the "will", there is a way.

    Okay, keep writing on here about how bad things are there, and then carry on the same sweet moaning way and do nothing.

    The thing is, change can only come from, the bottom. And the harder it takes, the harder you fight.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 1:01 pm

    okey dokey. Lets put the shoe on the other foot for a bit shall we? Personally I feel that your VAT is far too high. Ivanho, please change the rate of VAT to 2%.
    Thanks bunches,
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 1:14 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:okey dokey. Lets put the shoe on the other foot for a bit shall we? Personally I feel that your VAT is far too high. Ivanho, please change the rate of VAT to 2%.
    Thanks bunches,
    Tuppence

    Tuppence, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You are clearly apathetic.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 1:36 pm

    to be fair though, it is something of a simular request to you asking her to get Obama to reform helath care, impossible.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 1:38 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:to be fair though, it is something of a simular request to you asking her to get Obama to reform helath care, impossible.

    bowsertoad, to come to the point of my question to you. Private Health care is never comprehensive to my knowledge, correct me if im wrong ?.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 1:51 pm

    Yes Tuppence, VAT in Britain is "too high" but it is by no means the highest in Europe.

    I guess that we could all whine about death and taxes all day if we had a mind to but we should all give in to the fact that that is how governments work. ( Some are better at it than others of course ).

    I do not subscribe to the fact that America is too big to run a successful NHS, like ours, as all it will take to do that job is to ensure that EVERY working American pays into a national health insurance scheme at source so that the privateer insurance companies do not get their mitts on that very large amount of money.

    Yes Tuppence, I agree that one of the things that Obama wants for America is to see that every citizen of that great country has health insurance. I think that what needs changing is that any insurance scheme that is introduced that is designed to do this has to be a public, ( governmental ), and a not-for-profit scheme instead of any scheme that might be provided by the profit-driven and shareholder-dividend private sector.

    This, in my estimation, is where America has gone wrong and it is going to take a lot of concerted public opinion to change that hardened-in idea.


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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:08 pm

    >>sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You are clearly apathetic.<<
    No a pun is the lowest form of wit. As to apathy... fix the VAT issue and I will fix the US health insurance problem. American Insurance companies will turn loose their hold on the American wallet the exact same day and time that the British govornment lowers VAT to 2%.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:18 pm

    TuppenceHapenny wrote:>>sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You are clearly apathetic.<<
    No a pun is the lowest form of wit. As to apathy... fix the VAT issue and I will fix the US health insurance problem. American Insurance companies will turn loose their hold on the American wallet the exact same day and time that the British govornment lowers VAT to 2%.
    Tuppence

    Clearly Tuppence, you cant think for yourself, and you dont want to.

    For your information im already involved in campaigns in my own country of one form or another, hence my advice to you. I am involved in these campaigns because I choose to be, where as you wont fight for our NHS in your country, because you do not have the will to do it.



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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by zathrus on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:19 pm

    Hi Tupps....

    I think that reducing VAT to 2% is a very big ask but I can see it getting back to fifteen or even twelve percent, which would be a much better level to be at to be affordable.

    VAT is a stealth tax and it is one that many governments like as they can use it as just another income tax. They seem to think that we don't know what they are doing to us, but I think that the British people are well up to these tricks.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by TuppenceHapenny on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:26 pm

    Petitons work in the UK? WOW. Didn't know that. They never get anywhere here. I've signed every pro Socialised Medicine petition I can find and have for many decades. I've also signed anti-Osamascare petitions since that's not even in the ballpark of Socialised Med. As to not being able to think for myself-if I didn't I would buy into the Party line and go oon. Being able to think for myself means I don't.
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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:29 pm

    Clearly Tuppence, you cant think for yourself, and you dont want to.


    Pot kettle there Ivanhoe.

    and the Average income for a us house hold is $40k, which is about 20k given not rounding up or down. out of that 40K the working american is taxed 25-30% of their working wage (depending on the state they live) for the up keep of their police, road systems, eudcation and of course military, To put in a national insurance style system in place for the US nationals it would decrease their living funds, which most americans are not happy to do. Most americans have health insurance through their employment, and would not see paying any of their wage to support othersas a good thing. The americans could afford to do it for 10% of the population, but it is which 10% do you cater for?

    Ivanhoe 1 voice is louder when there are only 60 million to listen to, 1 voice in 311million can not be heard. Most americans couldnt care less about health care, and helping others, the same as it is in the uk.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by bowsertoad on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:31 pm

    Yes Tuppence, VAT in Britain is "too high" but it is by no means the highest in Europe.


    This is true papa, but countries that have a higher VAT rate, have a lower income or poll tax. also stuff works, and the country is clean, and they do not have a welfare system that is over stretched.

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:34 pm

    bowsertoad wrote:Clearly Tuppence, you cant think for yourself, and you dont want to.


    Pot kettle there Ivanhoe.

    and the Average income for a us house hold is $40k, which is about 20k given not rounding up or down. out of that 40K the working american is taxed 25-30% of their working wage (depending on the state they live) for the up keep of their police, road systems, eudcation and of course military, To put in a national insurance style system in place for the US nationals it would decrease their living funds, which most americans are not happy to do. Most americans have health insurance through their employment, and would not see paying any of their wage to support othersas a good thing. The americans could afford to do it for 10% of the population, but it is which 10% do you cater for?

    Ivanhoe 1 voice is louder when there are only 60 million to listen to, 1 voice in 311million can not be heard. Most americans couldnt care less about health care, and helping others, the same as it is in the uk.


    """Ivanhoe 1 voice is louder when there are only 60 million to listen to, 1 voice in 311million can not be heard. Most americans couldnt care less about health care, and helping others, the same as it is in the uk"""

    Agreed. Unfortunately

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    Re: Hoorayyyyyy.... Obama is back !

    Post by Guest on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 2:36 pm

    Ivanhoe: "Private Health care is never comprehensive to my knowledge, correct me if im wrong ?."

    Ivanhoe - when was the last time you ever looked at an application form for private health insurance?. If you can't contribute sensibly, please stop trolling.

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