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    Another sad day for Britain

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    Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

    As Ford announces the closure of its last assembly plant in Britain

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/9633043/Ford-to-cut-1400-jobs-in-Britain.html

    They tried lowering the exchange rate - it didn't work

    Just what do we need to do to keep our manufacturing open?

    Clapco
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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:29 am

    I guess it all depends on how you view events like this.

    Some might say that the manufacturing companies are closing their factories and moving abroad because they can make more profit abroad - where the wages are much lower - and yet some might say that they are taking the work out of Britain as moves like these are the difference between survival in a very difficult world manufacturing situation and going under.

    Which ever of these views are the right one still means that the trading situation in the expensive West is much harder than it is in the less expensive East.

    The example of Ford withdrawing from Britain is just the same as the Dutch company Vion closing down the Halls food manufacturing plant in Broxburn.

    I guess that so long as there are places where this manufacturing can go on with lower overheads and larger profits it is these places that will get the work.

    I think that the curious example of Halls of Broxburn highlights this argument very well as the parent company "Vion" have a factory doing the exact same job in Ireland and it seems that they do not want the Irish plant to have to compete with the Scottish one for the available trade in that sector.

    Business is a dog-eat-dog world and where profits are concerned jobs and people's lives, that are changed by losing these jobs, do not rate very high on the scale of requirements for the hard-nosed business people out there.

    In other words the profit motive and working people's livelihoods are very uncomfortable bedfellows and the profit motive wins every time.


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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:29 pm

    Personally I would extend the taxes on transport to include sea freight and rail freight so that purchasers of foreign cars get to pay for all the damage they are doing to the UK economy (yes Paps this includes people like you and please don't delete this comment you really should be ashamed of yourself driving a Japanese car)

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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm

    How mealy-mouthed is that statement ?

    You, as a businessman and as a Thatcherite, are keen that the free market should prevail in world trading and yet here you are suggesting that Britain should pick and choose who and how it trades with the rest of the world.

    That, my friend is called protectioneering and very few of the free countries in the world would support that.

    As a consumer all I am doing by buying a Toyota is buying the car that suits my environmental streak and my pocket. THAT is up to every individual to make their mind up about.

    You cannot have it both ways as you are going to have to make your mind up whether Britain is to take part in this free-trade market or not. If we don't they will close down their borders too and we will find that we can afterwards export nothing to anybody.


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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 1:21 pm

    Lol you use Thatcher when it suits you!

    I care about the unemployed and the working man and this kind of news makes me see red when champagne socialists like you bleat on about labour legislation from the seat of their foreign car. Its called Hypocrisy paps.

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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 1:39 pm

    We all have to live by the trade rules in the UK and all I am saying here is that while I do not wholly agree with rampant free-market ethics I have to live by them when I am not behaving like an anarchist.

    Uncontrolled free markets are what dictate the rules that all business have to follow and if you do not want to follow these rules then you are going to have to move your business to one of the countries that support anarchism.

    Thatcherism is alive and well and dictating to all of us that live in Britain, but that does not mean that I like it.

    Like most realistic people in this so-called "free market" I use it when I need to and have to and don't when I can avoid it.

    You girl-friend Thatcher was the greatest proponent of giving the Brits "choices" and yet she lectured us - just like you do - about being forced to "buy British" and trying to make us into traitors if we did not. That, to me, is a great indication of what a schizophrenic behaves like.


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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 2:46 pm

    Clapco wrote:Lol you use Thatcher when it suits you!

    I care about the unemployed and the working man and this kind of news makes me see red when champagne socialists like you bleat on about labour legislation from the seat of their foreign car. Its called Hypocrisy paps.

    Clapco

    """"I care about the unemployed and the working man"""

    Funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, oh brother have you made a rock for your back, and with a mighty chip on your shoulder.

    Signed
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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 5:32 pm

    What car do you drive then? I have a Ford, made in Britain - no rock, just reliable, economic transport.

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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 6:42 pm

    Clapco wrote:What car do you drive then? I have a Ford, made in Britain - no rock, just reliable, economic transport.

    Clapco

    HAW HAW HAW.

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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 7:15 am

    Is that a Toyota HAW HAW or a Vauxhall HAW HAW?

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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm

    And now, the truth:

    Many if not all of the marques of cars in Britain are actually owned by foreign companies so the jingoism that you suggest by "buying British" is really quite a silly idea.

    Ford is an American company, as are Vauxhall and Opel, ( General Motors ), and almost all of the cars on the roads of Britain are either made by foreign companies or are made by British workers on licence to foreign companies. ( Mostly Japanese, who use this as a trick to say that as they are not actually built in Japan they do not generate import surcharges ).

    Your beloved Ford is also going to be lost to Britain after all of the manufacturing bases here owned by Ford are closed. Where then will you go to "buy British" ?

    It is a fact that your free-market-system has slowly strangled the British car-making tradition so that now - apart from a few "sporting oddities" - this industry has gone from Britain.

    Read THIS and then come back and discuss where it all went wrong instead of just spouting Thatcherite slogans to us all of the time.


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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm

    papa_umau wrote:And now, the truth:

    Many if not all of the marques of cars in Britain are actually owned by foreign companies so the jingoism that you suggest by "buying British" is really quite a silly idea.

    Ford is an American company, as are Vauxhall and Opel, ( General Motors ), and almost all of the cars on the roads of Britain are either made by foreign companies or are made by British workers on licence to foreign companies. ( Mostly Japanese, who use this as a trick to say that as they are not actually built in Japan they do not generate import surcharges ).

    Your beloved Ford is also going to be lost to Britain after all of the manufacturing bases here owned by Ford are closed. Where then will you go to "buy British" ?

    It is a fact that your free-market-system has slowly strangled the British car-making tradition so that now - apart from a few "sporting oddities" - this industry has gone from Britain.

    Read THIS and then come back and discuss where it all went wrong instead of just spouting Thatcherite slogans to us all of the time.

    Papa, Tory supporters with say that all our manufacturing bases, including our coal mines, were ruined by Unions demands for their workers.

    Tory's will say that Margaret Thatcher had to get rid of the lot because they were too costly for the tax payer to subsidise.

    What the Tory's wont say is that if Thatcher really wanted to help UK workers she could have done what Sarcozy did when he became Present of France, he spoke to the Unions.

    Thatcher did'nt speak to anybody, she decided that the Unions were "the enemy within", and she weakened their power via the deliberate creation of over 3 million unemployed which was funded by our North Sea Oil revenues.

    And we Brit's are now continuing this ugly evil journey via this coalitions rotten cuts to State welfare, and to the role of the State.






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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:47 pm

    So true, so true my friend !


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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:48 pm

    You wouldn't know the truth if it fell on your head - the fact is that we did have a car industry and now we don't. I have always supported the UK car industry as much as I could and where not possible the European car industry.

    And again as I have demonstrated Mrs Thatcher did a huge amount of drum beating to secure over 1 million jobs - far more than any government since. If you don't acknowledge the facts then your arguments just become shouting and not worth reading never mind replying to.

    I asked for your suggestions and just got a tirade of abuse.

    I suggested raising taxes and just got a tirade of abuse.

    The forum is running away with you Paps - you used to be consistent, now you are just bitter and twisted.

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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:49 pm

    papa_umau wrote:So true, so true my friend !

    Papa, I dont think even Ed Milliband will ever get us out of this mess.



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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by Guest on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:55 pm

    "Even Ed Milliband" ?

    HAW HAW HAW
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    Re: Another sad day for Britain

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 28 Oct 2012, 1:07 pm

    Clapco wrote:You wouldn't know the truth if it fell on your head - the fact is that we did have a car industry and now we don't. I have always supported the UK car industry as much as I could and where not possible the European car industry.

    And again as I have demonstrated Mrs Thatcher did a huge amount of drum beating to secure over 1 million jobs - far more than any government since. If you don't acknowledge the facts then your arguments just become shouting and not worth reading never mind replying to.

    I asked for your suggestions and just got a tirade of abuse.

    I suggested raising taxes and just got a tirade of abuse.

    The forum is running away with you Paps - you used to be consistent, now you are just bitter and twisted.

    Clapco

    The truth hurts when it is presented to you in ways that you cannot deny it !

    You really have to scrape the bottom of the Tory barrel if you are trying to suggest that anything that Thatcher did while she was in power was in any other way but destructive. History stands with me on this one and you will stand virtually alone if you continue to take that tack.


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