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    Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

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    papa_umau
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    Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 19 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm

    Most of us will already know of many private contracts that have been given out for services that have traditionally been done by the state and how these services have suffered once the profit-motive was allowed into the mix.

    I am going to talk specifically about TWO such services that are out there on their own as being incompetent, inefficient and not worth the taxpayers money that is and has been thrown at them.

    Firstly, "ATOS".

    This company was given the contracts to "weed out" those people that the government felt did not qualify for incapacity-benefit or for any of the other benefits that are connected with illness.

    Since it's inception this cruel company, ( as "cruel" it is ), has removed many thousands of people who had previously qualified for benefits so that they are now either sitting at home with no money, or they are stuck on employment benefit while they search for non-existent work.

    A quote from the underlinked site

    "Official figures show that 40 per cent of appeals against a decision not to award Employment and Support Allowance, largely based on the WCA, are upheld. The figure rises to a staggering 70 per cent if the claimant is accompanied by someone like a citizens advisor bureau officer".

    Read THIS report on this worthless company.

    And finally, G4S or ( Group Four Security ).

    This privatised service that did everything from carrying offenders back and forth to court - and lost many of them as - G4 - to helping out with Customs security matters and who was awarded a security contract for making the Olympics safe has made a cock-up off just about every job that it has done since being awarded these contracts.

    See THIS report and wonder why it happened.

    The question that springs to mind here is: Why did these companies not get vetted for experience and ability to do the jobs BEFORE they were given these contracts, and are they going to be fully punished for not getting the job right that they were contracted to do ?

    Have any of you opinions or answers to these question and do any of you know of privatisation deals done by governments of the present and the past that were also abortive and costly for a service that was done abysmally ?


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    zathrus
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by zathrus on Thu 23 Aug 2012, 1:37 pm

    OK mate, I too have to agree that every time that any public contract has been hived off to the private sector in order to save money we have found that not only do we not save any taxpayers money but the contracts that have been sold off fall apart soon after.

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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by Guest on Fri 24 Aug 2012, 9:44 am

    Sorry but I remember the days when the public had to wait whilst the council workers decided whether they could be bothered to turn up for work and empty your bins or not. As far as I am concerned the private sector has almost always delivered services more efficiently - not the least because they dont have to pay gold plated pensions to their workforce.

    The first example you quote is just shooting the messenger - ATOS (who have administered the trains in our country for many years) are not responsible for the criteria, they just apply them and get the flak by the look of things.

    As to G4S apart from the olympic saga, the 'lost prisoner' stories are somewhat old hat. And don't try and tell me nobody escaped (sorry got lost) when the prison service was in charge....

    Clapco
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 24 Aug 2012, 1:03 pm

    Not being too biased against the private sector I can see that the only differences between private and public services are a). Professionalism in management, ( the public sector can be professionally managed if it is done right and financed correctly ). b ). The public sector is not run under the profit motive and this is always better than having to ensure that profits are made at taxpayers expense and that shareholders get their annual bung indirectly from the British Treasury.

    Those that do remember will know that previously almost all publicly-run entities were badly managed and badly financed and that was what gave "nationalisation" a bad name.

    There is no reason why nationalised industries and services can not be run well and more cheaply for the taxpayer if they are done right.

    One experimental method of doing this was introduced by Labour when Railtrack was scrapped and Network Rail was put in it's place. This had the effect of getting things done without any of the sometimes-private money going into shareholders pockets.

    Up here in Scotland we have already developed that idea much further with the introduction of The Scottish Futures Trust where that awful PFI and PPP financing structures have been dropped for quite-rightly being too expensive in the long run.

    I believe that it is this direction that many future government actions will take once we can get out of the "privatise everything" mantra that both the Tory and the New-Labour governments seemed not to be able to avoid.


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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by Guest on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 8:20 am

    You love that expression don't you?

    NO REASON

    There are plenty of reasons, just that you either cannot think of them or prefer not to list them so your post looks authoritative.

    How something is managed is a function of the managers, not the finance. Many companies get by on a shoestring and I would suggest that the 'old' nationalised industries that you agree were badly managed were generally well financed - the reason they were 'privatised' was to remove this drain on the public purse. The public sector tends to attract people who cannot get a job anywhere else but like the job security on offer. Promotion is by time served not merit. This is why the private sector will always out perform the public - less dead wood.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 11:59 am

    History will tell you, if you look, that past nationalised bodies were BOTH poorly managed and poorly financed and that was why they got the reputation for being inefficient and wasteful.

    With that point accepted, ( and very few lefties will admit to that BTW ), all that is left - to me - is that if we want good service, run by the state, they have to be BOTH well-managed and well-financed. One does not work without the other !

    For some unfathomable reason, in some circles, it would seem, that it is thought that it is only the private sector that can carry out both of these actions properly.

    Any-one who looks closely enough, that is not dictated to by dogma, will know this and recognise it as the undeniable truth.


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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by Guest on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 2:36 pm

    Wrong wrong WRONG

    They were well financed and still poorly managed which is how privatisation came about in the first place. To be fair nationalised industries do seem to suffer from more meddling than private ones which makes it difficult for them (extra red tape).

    To me the NHS is the best/worst example of this where a humungous amount of money is given over to the largest employer in the world and what do we get for it? Second rate health care.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 26 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm

    They were NOT "well financed" at the time because they became cash-cows for other nationalised industries and for the poor spending plans that were made by the incompetent managers at the time.

    Spending is totally connected to planning and management and you cannot have one without the other and what I and many more people are now saying is that if nationalisation is to be brought back for certain services these services should be run properly and financed correctly and amply.

    The NHS in Britain - with all of it's flaws - is still the envy of the modern world and that is why identical copies of it have been introduced in Canada and New-Zealand and many other countries that are willing to go down the welfare-state route. The Americans, in particular would love to have our NHS working over there as even this "richest country in the world" has health-care that is abysmal for the working classes and even much too expensive for the rich or the ones that can afford decent private health insurance in that great country.

    NO... my friend you are talking from a base of dogma and not from truth as anyone who talks like that has obviously got a mind that is closed to real life.


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    Hell's Granny
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Wed 05 Sep 2012, 5:36 pm

    Clapco,

    The NHS was well run and financed until the mid-80's when the Government decided that it had to be run by businessmen, who imported large 'boards', carpeted corridors, and put up large postboards with photographs of the board members, who were still doing other jobs, whilst bean-counting for the hospitals, resulting in many hospital done services such as laundry, cleaning and catering being farmed out to private companies(often their own), whilst at the same time taking large salaries from the coffers of the hospitals.

    This resulted in the following; shortages in Emergency equipment,bedlinen, sterile equipment, drip giving sets, sterile bandages and solutions, scalpels and other sterile operating insruments, wards uncleaned when cleaning staff skimped, causing many of the infections which plague the wards,unclean laundry having to be reused, shortages of ward staff due to 'economy', resulting in patients dying of dehydration or malnutrition (My own aunt for one). Not to mention taking nurses in training off the wards (where they leaned good practice) and sending them to Universities, from whence they emerge all shiny and gleaming to find that Nursing is hot smelly nasty work, and hard with it!

    Successive Governments have screwed the NHS to screaming point, so of course the NHS is no longer fit for purpose. I am going to take a guess that you, Clapco, avail yourself of it's services when you need them.

    Do us a favour Go Private, but remember, if there is an Emergency at a private hospital, you will be transferred immediately back to the NHS A&E, as Private Hospitals, don't do the nasty bits!

    Cheers HG (40 years Nursing at the Bedface!)
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    papa_umau
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 06 Sep 2012, 1:22 pm

    WELL SAID HG !

    There you have it Clapco....Right from the horse's mouth ! ( Not calling you a horse of course HG Evil or Very Mad ).

    Oh how I wish that governments would really listen to the people who have to run these services at the front-end as if they did they would instantly know what to do to fix them when they go wrong.



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    Hell's Granny
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    Re: Privatisation cock-ups get worse and worse ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Fri 07 Sep 2012, 12:25 pm

    Neigh! Laughing

    Cheers, HG

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