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    Make a difference

    Post by Guest on Wed 20 Jun 2012, 8:59 am

    It has often been said on RoB that the public are not consulted before new laws are introduced.

    Here is your chance to put that right - the coalition is consulting on changes to the Childrens Act to give parents (usually fathers) greater access to their children by right rather than through the court system.

    You can give your opinions here

    http://www.education.gov.uk/consultations/index.cfm?action=consultationDetails&consultationId=1825&external=no&menu=1

    This is one of the most contentious issues still to be resolved in the 21st Century where there are many single parent families not through choice resulting in delinquent children with psychological problems and parents resorting to violence or suicide to get something that they should be entitled to by right namely equal access to their children.

    I would be particularly interested in Angies views as she prolly sees evidence of this every day in the course of her job but you are welcome to give your views on such an important subject regardless of politics.

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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 21 Jun 2012, 11:19 am

    Sorry Clapco, but these types of so-called "consultations" are only done so that the government can then say that they did ask before they just do there own thing anyway.

    Such "consultations" are worthless if the people holding them have already made up their minds about what their direction should take.

    This is Cameron and Co' making a show about being "in touch" with the British people when in fact there has never been a more OUT OF TOUCH government than this present one is.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Guest on Thu 21 Jun 2012, 11:59 am

    I understand what you are saying and hadn't intended to get drawn into an argument about this as I too thought that it was window dressing. The thing is through the use of eg green papers the government does discuss new laws and these do result in changes to laws. If we are both right and there is no point in discussion then no wonder the public is so apathetic as Ivanhoe posted elsewhere.

    It is not just a coalition idea however - it was used extensively by the last 3 Labour governments.

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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm

    Yes Clapco, I think that on this issue we are all in agreement !

    Government after government have liked us to think that they are "listening governments" but they can only successfully push that idea if they actually DO listen to the man - and woman - on the street and then shape their policies accordingly.

    Of course the ultimate "listening" device is the referendum, but I am afraid that governing by referendum is neither practical nor truly democratic as we already elect the people that are in power so that they can take these kinds of important decisions FOR US.

    That said, and I am sure agreed, I feel that in the past we have elected governments that do not truly act on our behalf as they are too busy pushing their own agendas to pay attention to what we want.

    That is why there is now a growing and very strong people's lobby whereby we can start to shape the kind of government we need and want BEFORE they are in power.

    I personally believe that this government should take the shape of a "people's government" that consider all of our needs before they consider their own. Not an easy task, I will admit, but if we all support democracy then under that ethic we have to ensure that the people we elect to act for us are taken "from the people" are elected "by the people" and hold the values "of the people" in the forefront of their minds at all times.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 12:22 pm

    " In agreement" ?

    Well there is a nice thing to see ! cheers

    I have often thought that if people were only to lay aside their political dogmas that they would find to their surprise that they agree on most things.

    Now, how do we go about booting out this un-listening coalition anyway ?

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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 3:54 pm

    Angie baby wrote:" In agreement" ?

    Well there is a nice thing to see ! cheers

    I have often thought that if people were only to lay aside their political dogmas that they would find to their surprise that they agree on most things.

    Now, how do we go about booting out this un-listening coalition anyway ?

    We dont Angie-baby. We have around 3 years to go yet.
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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 12:22 pm

    So true Ivanhoe, although - as we both have hoped for - the whole thing could implode without our help as even now the cracks showing in the coalition are getting wider by the day.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 1:04 pm

    papa_umau wrote:So true Ivanhoe, although - as we both have hoped for - the whole thing could implode without our help as even now the cracks showing in the coalition are getting wider by the day.

    We can only hope Pap.

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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 7:18 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Sorry Clapco, but these types of so-called "consultations" are only done so that the government can then say that they did ask before they just do there own thing anyway.

    Such "consultations" are worthless if the people holding them have already made up their minds about what their direction should take.

    This is Cameron and Co' making a show about being "in touch" with the British people when in fact there has never been a more OUT OF TOUCH government than this present one is.

    Pap, the very last thing I would desribe Cameron as, is, "out of touch". The man is a right wing Tory, they simply dont care about the poor and vulnerable. They are not out of touch, they know what they are doing, they just do not care, they are souless economists,
    who take money from the poor because they wont take money from the rich. It's that simple.


    Last edited by Ivanhoe on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:39 am

    Maybe you would accept that phrase more readily if I say deliberately "out of touch" as they certainly do seem to try very hard to persuade us that they are not "out of touch" with the wishes of the people of this country as they issue bogus "consultation exercises" that Clapco talks about in his topic thread-start.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:48 am

    papa_umau wrote:Maybe you would accept that phrase more readily if I say deliberately "out of touch" as they certainly do seem to try very hard to persuade us that they are not "out of touch" with the wishes of the people of this country as they issue bogus "consultation exercises" that Clapco talks about in his topic thread-start.

    Pap, the Tory right wing know that they hurt the poor, they just dont care, they have no social conscience.

    You can use all the words you like, this is what it comes down to.
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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm

    Yes, while AGAIN that is true....Do you not think that they want us to think that they are a sharing-caring government that cares about all of us ?

    After all, no government of the past has every been elected because they "didn't care"

    What I am trying to get at here - and failing miserable it would seem - is that as far as they see it, and they want us to see it, is that they are NOT a cruel and uncaring government and they do not want to be tarred as one.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 25 Jun 2012, 12:38 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Yes, while AGAIN that is true....Do you not think that they want us to think that they are a sharing-caring government that cares about all of us ?

    After all, no government of the past has every been elected because they "didn't care"

    What I am trying to get at here - and failing miserable it would seem - is that as far as they see it, and they want us to see it, is that they are NOT a cruel and uncaring government and they do not want to be tarred as one.

    """"Do you not think that they want us to think that they are a sharing-caring government that cares about all of us ?"""

    No. This is another media tag. The main objective is to divide and conquer us, and get into power again.
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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 26 Jun 2012, 11:40 am

    Well, I can tell you that they are not going to succeed in that desire with me as I am neither going to be "divided" nor "conquered".

    I am sure that so long as we are aware of what they are trying to do we can then be forewarned and forearmed for the battle when the time comes.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 26 Jun 2012, 11:46 am

    papa_umau wrote:Well, I can tell you that they are not going to succeed in that desire with me as I am neither going to be "divided" nor "conquered".

    I am sure that so long as we are aware of what they are trying to do we can then be forewarned and forearmed for the battle when the time comes.

    Pap, We are just "two", there are 60 million maybe more other people out there, and when the time comes it is they who vote, and "they" do not give me confidence.
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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 26 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm

    Yes Ivanhoe, you are right and we must realise that many of those millions of people out there are what is commonly known as "floating voters" who change ship easily and without much thought.

    It is these people that make the changes in the face of British politics and it is these voters that we have to target if we want general politics in Britain to be altered for the better.

    The hard-liners that are set in their ways are beyond help as they will never change. These are the ones that we should ignore and dismiss.


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 26 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Yes Ivanhoe, you are right and we must realise that many of those millions of people out there are what is commonly known as "floating voters" who change ship easily and without much thought.

    It is these people that make the changes in the face of British politics and it is these voters that we have to target if we want general politics in Britain to be altered for the better.

    The hard-liners that are set in their ways are beyond help as they will never change. These are the ones that we should ignore and dismiss.

    So Pap, how precisely do we do this ?
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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 27 Jun 2012, 11:02 am

    Of course, when I say "we" I mean all of the people who are active in politics that are NOT extremists or hard-liners.

    I think that if you looked you might find that there are millions of them out there just looking for some-one - or some entity - to give them direction and a small lead in the right direction.

    We are already doing this with our letter-writing and media campaign and the more people who read this website - and who do not necessarily write to it - the more people we are going to get through to to change popular opinion about who should be in charge next time round. As I have said before: This site gets around twenty-thousand page-hits a month, ( that's around 240,000 a year ), and if those numbers of people only read a small part of our politics sub-forum that means that there are lot of pairs of eyes falling on our political vision for the future.

    From there "word of mouth" will keep the numbers growing until at the next GE we may find that many of the so-called "floating voters" will have been touched by our vision.

    I hope that that does not sound too megalomaniacle but what I intent to do is what the internet is great for, and that is to make many subjects - including ours I hope - go "viral".


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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 27 Jun 2012, 11:24 am

    papa_umau wrote:Of course, when I say "we" I mean all of the people who are active in politics that are NOT extremists or hard-liners.

    I think that if you looked you might find that there are millions of them out there just looking for some-one - or some entity - to give them direction and a small lead in the right direction.

    We are already doing this with our letter-writing and media campaign and the more people who read this website - and who do not necessarily write to it - the more people we are going to get through to to change popular opinion about who should be in charge next time round. As I have said before: This site gets around twenty-thousand page-hits a month, ( that's around 240,000 a year ), and if those numbers of people only read a small part of our politics sub-forum that means that there are lot of pairs of eyes falling on our political vision for the future.

    From there "word of mouth" will keep the numbers growing until at the next GE we may find that many of the so-called "floating voters" will have been touched by our vision.

    I hope that that does not sound too megalomaniacle but what I intent to do is what the internet is great for, and that is to make many subjects - including ours I hope - go "viral".

    I do not think we should let this be at the "whim" of other people, Pap.

    We should be activelly driving this from the front, so we are aware that at least we have pushed the button so to speak at our end.

    I do believe to quote yourself above, people need leading, and we are doing that, but we have to do more, and you know what I mean by that.

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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by Guest on Tue 06 Nov 2012, 1:00 pm

    Well guys it seems you did make a difference as shared parenting legislation is now firmly on the legislative agenda despite the bleatings of many a lawyer that their fee income will likely go down.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9656507/Absent-fathers-to-get-legal-right-to-spend-time-with-their-children.html

    Thanks to everyone who responded to the green paper

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    Re: Make a difference

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 06 Nov 2012, 1:20 pm

    That sounds to me like basic, good, common sense and very few reasonable people would take issue with that !


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