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    The start of the collapse ?

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    papa_umau
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    The start of the collapse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:51 pm

    It was reported on the internet news-feeds today that the top Liberal Democrats are holding secret talks with Labour leader Ed Miliband's inner circle about joining forces at the next election.

    These eminent Liberal Democrats include Sir Menzies Campbell, Vince Cable, Lord Oakenshot, Simon Hughes and Tim Farron - who has been tipped for the next party leader.

    A Labour source said: "The talks are very informal. Vince speaks to Ed on the phone". "The other discussions are between trusted officials of the key-players to look at possible areas of co-operation.

    This revelation is likely to trigger a fresh split in Nick Clegg's party and put their coalition with The Tories under further strain.

    A top Labour official said: "The talks are with Lib-Dems smart enough to realise that Nick Clegg has led them to the edge of the abyss". "They know their only chance of survival is as the junior partners in a Labour government after the next election !"


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    zathrus
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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by zathrus on Mon 04 Jun 2012, 11:52 am

    On holiday today, woo-hoo. Thanks Queenie !

    Now, to your posting..... Smile

    Yes mate, that is a very obvious sign that the Liberal Democrat activists are getting totally browned off with Clegg and the rest of his Tory cabinet colleagues.

    They now see him as the person that is dragging the party under.

    If this coalition survives the winter I will be very surprised.

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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by Guest on Tue 05 Jun 2012, 8:44 am

    The Lib Dems will be screwed whoever they throw their towel in with. They lost out massively when they had their infamous pact with Labour in 1977-8 which led to a collapse in their vote and the Thatcher landslide. They will lose out again this time, perhaps for the final time. They should just merge with Labour and get it over with.

    As to the writing on the wall - I am not so sure the libs will be so ready to give up their perks of office quite so readily. More likely they will run out of people to hold office as one by one they are consumed by scandal.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 05 Jun 2012, 11:43 am

    I agree ! ( shock and horror ). Twisted Evil

    The thing is that the little taste of power that the few Lib-Dems received from the Tory cup when they were given unimportant cabinet seats will not save the Liberal Democrats from oblivion. In fact, every day that Glegg and co' keep serving their Tory masters is another day that the Lib-Dem activists will continue to hammer home more coffin-nails.

    Sooner or later, ( sooner I hope ), this awful coalition IS going to collapse and when it does the Tories will either have to work on with a minority government or they will have to go to the people again.

    They already know that they are dead, they will just not lie down !


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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by Guest on Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm

    Why do you say it is awful - awful because it is a coalition or awful because the Tories are in it?

    I hope it is the former and you are not a bigot, but then the only alternative would be a minority coalition with Labour.

    Thanks to Bruin the Ruin this government are caught between a rock and a hard place - it was said by Melvyn King that whatever flavour of government we elected they would be unpopular. Personally I think it has been rather successful - borrowing continues to increase, policies dropped every time someone complains....

    As to backbiting within the Libs, it is nothing compared to that within the Conservatives so the Libs must be affecting policy somehow.

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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:38 pm

    Unlike you I do not need to use namecalling to identify the people I do not like in politics.

    I call it "AWFUL" as it is truly this because they have no clue how to either operate a coalition or even try to make law without having to keep coming back to change this abortive law time after time.

    The words "U-turn" have become the defining words of this morally bankrupt and truly hellish alliance.

    Yes, I believe that if the Liberal Democrats had gone for a deal with the rainbow coalition - including the Labour Party - rather than taking the safer but more unnatural course of tagging on to the coat-tails of the Tories, that coalition would have been a far more successful one and would have not finished up destroying both the Lib-Dems and the Tories, as this one is doing.


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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by Guest on Wed 06 Jun 2012, 3:30 pm

    Lol Paps - It would have been easier to admit that you just don't like the Tories (and more honest)

    A 'rainbow coalition' would have the same problems X 5 (or however many there are. Remember the Callagas government being blackmailed by various minority governments as they desperately clung to power? Major? It sucks and you know it.

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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 07 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm

    Just because Clegg thought that having to negotiate with only one Tory "partner" in the present coalition might be a better and easier idea than having to negotiate with the members of the "rainbow coalition" does not mean that it might not have been a better working relationship.

    What has happened in the past should be learned from so that these past mistakes do not shape what is done today and that is why it might have been better to have formed a government with the rainbow coalition rather than with a morally bankrupt Tory one.

    I am sure that after the next general election - if Labour do not win an outright majority - I am sure that without the-then tiny numbers of Lib-Dems that will be left the resulting rainbow coalition might still be a deal worth doing.

    If the polls at the moment are right then it does look as if the Tories are going to be decimated at that general election and any such coalition suggestion would then only be a moot one.


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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by Guest on Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:05 pm

    3 years is a long time in Politics Paps.

    As to cleggs prescience, I suspect you are one of the few people around who believe negotiating with five separate arguing parties is preferable to one. I don't know what experience you have of that but it is sooooo wrong as to lay your analysis open to criticism.

    And again as I said before - the coalition policies are little different from New Labia, the Lib Dems HAVE made a big difference, the Tories HAVE moved on, only old die hards like you remain with the same old clap trap. Soon there won't be many of us left though so its OK.

    Clapco


    Last edited by Clapco on Fri 08 Jun 2012, 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 12:34 pm

    I am afraid that if you are not willing to try to see the flaws in the present coalition you never will see them !

    My whole premise in this thread is that because the general policies of the then rainbow coalition might have already been very close to that required by the Liberal Democrats it would have been much easier to reach consensus about lawmaking within such a partnership.

    It is an undeniable fact that it is because of the number of times that Clegg has bent over backwards to support Tory austerity initiatives that this has caused the serious rift that now exists deep within that party and that has brought that party close to oblivion.

    All you have to do is stop and think about it for a moment and as an obviously intelligent bloke you would realise that the Tory ethos and the Liberal Democrat ethos has and always will be anathema to each-other and that is why this coalition was condemned to fail right from the start.


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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by Guest on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:32 pm

    Oh dear oh dear of dear.

    I am not saying the coalition is not flawed - I am saying a rainbow coalition would have five times as many flaws.

    As to the Lib-Dems bending over backwards, given the relative 'weight' of the Lib-Dem bloc they have far more power than it merits which is a clear indication of how the Tories have given more to make the coalition work.

    Regarding natural alliances within the political spectrum between Lib and Lab this may seem true, but then there would still have to be differentiation otherwise why have two separate parties? I put it to you that far from being a 'better' choice, Labour have isolated themselves from the voters so much that the Lib-Dems will be the next opposition especially if Labour returns to its 'roots' in the left as your astonishingly naive open letter proposes.

    That is why you are keen to stick the knife into the coalition my friend!

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    Re: The start of the collapse ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 1:16 pm

    Clapco said:

    "the Lib-Dems will be the next opposition"

    How ridiculous is that ?

    And I say that even if the Lib Dems survive to the end of this government term they are going to be reduced to such a low level that they - as I have reported in my latest post - will probably have the same number of seats as the UKIP party - or even less - at the next GE.

    See THIS.

    C'mon Clapco, you are really going to have to keep up !


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