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    The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

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    papa_umau
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    The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 04 May 2012, 1:33 pm

    As an environmentalist I cannot imagine what is in the minds of the manufacturers and sellers of hybrid plug-in and all-electric cars in today's market as after a search to find a reasonably-priced vehicle of this type I was shocked to find that even with the 5,000 government incentive for such vehicles taken off the price I could not find one that cost less than 20,000 new.

    When one really looks at the intrinsic manufacturing cost of these vehicles it starts to look as if the manufacturers are deliberately taking the government 5,000 and adding it onto their profits rather than allowing this incentive to make these vehicles less expensive.

    As far as the more-expensive-to-produce plug-in hybrid/electric cars are concerned I can see where some of this extra cost might go on the new Lithium-ion battery and the plug-in hardware and control systems - on top of the cost of the petrol or diesel engine - but as far as truly electric cars are concerned I cannot see where the cost relates to the intrinsic value of such less-complicated vehicles.

    If the manufacturers and the governments were to REALLY get their heads together they could produce such cars, ( with all of the latest technology in them ), that would be affordable that would create a market that would cut the numbers of polluting-vehicles sales down to somewhere like a third to a half of the numbers that are sold at the moment.

    Once these vehicles are bought in their millions there would then be good reason to ensure that there were plentiful numbers of quick-charge points in every town and city that these cars might run between.

    Can anybody out there please explain to me why this is not happening or is the fact that the manufacturers and retailers of these types of cars are already making so much money from the ones that can afford to pay these extortionate prices that they are happy to keep ripping these mugs off ?


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    Angie baby
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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 05 May 2012, 2:43 pm

    Nice one Papa !

    Even although I will never be able to afford an electric car I think that they are so cool. There smallness and their cuteness make them ideal girly cars but until they come down by more than half I l know I will never have one.

    I too cannot understand why they are so expensive !

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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by Guest on Sun 06 May 2012, 8:03 am

    Hopefully it is to make sure they never catch on because electric cars produce three times the CO2 as hydrocarbon ones.

    The truth is more likely that they cost a lot to make because of their high manufacturing costs (all those rare metals) and the manufacturers want to recoup their RnD costs (and why not?)

    What a pity people like you have to criticise their efforts - when was the last time you made an electric car?

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    papa_umau
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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 06 May 2012, 1:08 pm

    Not surprised that you take that establishment stance Clapco, as you always do.

    That aside, I want you - and anybody else that is reading this - to stop and think for a minute about the cost of developing and building a small and usually pokey and plasticky electric car and to compare what you might think the comparative cost might be to build a modern internal combustion-engined car, ( especially when modern internal combustion engines are VERY well designed as far as emissions are concerned ).

    To me the intrinsic cost of designing and building a small, usually "pokey and plastic-finished and very simple vehicle and then putting a good battery and a good electric motor in it instead of an internal combustion engine cannot be any more than building the equivalent - FOR THE PRICE - ordinary modern car is.

    The comparison to anybody that stops and thinks about it has to be obvious that the intrinsic value of the little electric car is not more - in fact is considerably LESS - that the intrinsic value of the fossil-fuel burning car - for the same cost of production.

    As far as the electric car being a worse polluter than a fossil-fuel-burning car for manufacture and running is concerned; even if we take into consideration that a lot of the power that comes through the grid that charges the batteries of these electric cars is produced by fossil-fuel-burning power stations - we still have to admit that they are much less polluting than ordinary internal combustion-engined vehicles are.

    Why do you think that the government give a 5,000 incentive for people to buy these cars and that they are free of VED tax and free to take into central London, if they are not less polluting than ordinary cars are ?


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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by Guest on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:30 am

    My 'stance' is that of common sense Paps. It is just conceivable that someone such as you with the right tools and enough steels could make a car. It is inconceivable that the same person could make batteries, power control systems, motors, electronic components etc.

    You mistake your lack of knowledge for vision sometimes Paps.

    Electric cars are popular in London because the pollution occurs at the point of generation, not the point of use as with fuel. So the CO2 is shipped out to Didcot, Kingsnorth and Tilbury.

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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 07 May 2012, 12:19 pm

    I have already admitted that the power that goes into the batteries for electric cars usually comes from - especially in England - fossil-fuel-burning power-stations. That is not to say that the exhaust fumes that come from all other internal combustion vehicles are not much worse than the NIL exhaust fumes - including CO2 - that come from electric cars.

    I also said above.... that the cost of making a lithium-ion battery and a good electric motor to put into a cheap and nasty little electric car does not even come near the cost that is entailed in the development and manufacture of a normal car that can be obtained for the same price.

    THINK ABOUT IT.....

    The purely electric cars and the newest hybrid plug-in cars cost about fifteen thousand pounds more than the equivalent internal-combustion-engined cars do and even with the government incentive of 5,000 taken off they are still ten thousand pounds more expensive than the best of these middle-of-the-road cars.

    I Know, as I own one !

    My brand-new-bought - mid-ranged - Toyota Prius hybrid was 21,000 when I bought it in 2010 but the plug-in version of the -entry-level-range - same car that comes out in June starts at 32,000.

    The entry level Toyota Prius hybrid in 2010 was 18,000 and the entry level PLUG-IN version is going to cost 27,000 - and that is with the 5,000 government incentive discount taken off.

    What I want to know is: Why is the entry-level plug-in version of the Toyota Prius Hybrid 14,000 more expensive than the standard Toyota Prius hybrid when the only difference is a better battery, ( a Lithium-Ion instead of a Nickel-Metal-Hydride ), and a recharge-from-the-mains-facility ?

    Also the little and pokey Nissan Leaf all-electric car costs 30,000 and even with the 5,000 government discount it still costs 25,000

    I do not accept that any of these cars are priced competitively and I think that until they are we are not going to see very many of them on the roads.

    BTW....I have written to Nissan and told them this.


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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by Guest on Mon 07 May 2012, 6:34 pm

    Ah hahahahahaha Paps bought a pious!!!!!!!

    Sorry m8 - you just lost all credibility there. The car of choice for all wannabe celebrities. What fuel consumption do you get?

    Lol

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    papa_umau
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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 08 May 2012, 12:25 pm

    Laugh all you want Clapco, but the middle-ranged Prius - when I bought it was not only a great deal at 21,000 but it was well within my price-range.

    ( Incidentally, it gets around 70MPG and because it has less than 100 gpk of emissions the VED tax is free too ).

    The one I was hoping to replace it with, namely the plug-in version, is so bloody expensive that I am planning to boycott it next year when my leasing deal is up.

    I also plan to do what I did with Nissan; I plant to berate Toyota for their greed as they attempt to push the same mid-ranged car with a slightly better battery and a plug-in charging facility that now costs 35,000.

    I am looking favourably at the new Chrysler Ypsilon, ( my last but one new car was a Chrysler PT Cruiser which I just loved ), as that car also has around 70MPG and is free of VED charges.

    Mark my words....The greedy electric car and plug-in hybrid car manufacturers and retailers are going to lose a lot of money if thoughtful people like me do what I plan to do.

    Just out of interest and to make you salivate, here is a piccie of my present Prius.

    Eat your heart out Clapco !



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    zathrus
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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by zathrus on Wed 09 May 2012, 11:14 am

    WOW, that's nice Paps.

    Why don't you just pay the balance of the leasing deal and just keep it ?

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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by Guest on Wed 09 May 2012, 3:09 pm

    He's trying to keep the economy going by using a bank loan - either that or he can't afford it Wink

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    papa_umau
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    Re: The ridiculous cost of electric and plug-in hybrid cars !

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 10 May 2012, 11:22 am

    Quite simply - and as I said already - I truly cannot afford to buy the now-overpriced plug-in version of the Toyota Prius as it has gone up far too much in price.

    Please, if you care to, read the comparison pricing detail above on my present Prius and the new Plug in version that is on sale from this June.

    I certainly plan to write to Toyota and tell them this also !

    I have always thought that it is very unfair in the so-called "free-market system" to have government wage controls without price controls too. After all if wages are either frozen or get less with inflation this must have a damaging effect on this "free-market system".


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