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    And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

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    And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by Technician on Tue 24 Apr 2012, 8:30 pm

    Hi All,

    Just got back from the Netherlands ( where the prime minister has just resigned due to a row about austerity measures !!)The Euro remains a hot topic over there. Just in case some on this site thought all was well think about the following:

    For those who thought the Euro crisis had gone away, think again. The crisis-hit Euro is teetering on the brink of collapse, the IMF acknowledged for the first time the other day.
    We are just in a period in which we are in the eye of the EU storm. More crap is to come.

    It has been noted that GERMANY could be left isolated in Europe if France rejects austerity following the elections. People do not want to live under German-dominated austerity and we're seeing a democratic rebellion across the whole of Europe, but Merkel is determined to hang on to the Euro at all costs !.

    Also, in an act of criminality no less, Osborne bungs the EU a further 10 BILLION of our money to support this failing project!!.

    The EU is already planning to return Greece back to the drachma, getting Greek firms to repay loans in its former currency - a further sign that the euro is on its way out. So some people are at least putting their heads over the parapet and seeing what the real world is like.

    The global money God of Greed, Goldman Sachs is on a back foot as it starts to realise its ambition of world financial domination is slipping somewhat. And that is despite the new leaders of Greece and Italy (imposed on the countries by the EU and unelected ) were BOTH previous board members of Golman Sachs !!!

    See the latest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llDYLb7HoIk

    The whole damn lot of them make you want to weep !

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 25 Apr 2012, 10:44 am

    Yes Technician, there is no doubt that the Euro is not out of trouble yet !

    What tickles my funny bone, ( NOT ), is how all of these countries, including Britain of course, are forcing austerity measure after austerity measure down the throats of the people that are hit hardest already by the mistakes that their governments and banks have made.

    Why is it that not one of these governments have tried to get back the money that was lost to them by forcing austerity measures onto the people that caused the crisis in the first place. It is always the ordinary people of any of these countries that pay the price for other people's recklessness and incompetence.


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    Post by Technician on Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:26 pm

    Hi All,

    Hello Paps. Well that is very good observation indeed, and you are spot on!!. Of course why we don't hear the full story is that the true picture is often distorted by the likes of the BBC. For instance what do we hear about Iceland ???. Very quiet that is it not.

    In effect Icelands economy is now growing thanks to NOT taking help from the IMF and booting out the politicians and banks who engineered the crash in the first place. But, its all kept quiet. In effect Iceland told the IMF to bugger off as they contributed to the collapse in the first place. Why in Gods name take their advice. Its just the same as putting bad money after bad. Exactly what Osborne is doing with our 10 billion, and yet we are being told to tighten our belts !!.

    Again the video link to Nigel Farage will NEVER be shown on the BBC. Isn't it ironic that the latest opposition news and such videos are broadcast on 'Russia Today' !!!. Of course say what you like about Putin and the Russians, at least they did not enslave themselves to the IMF, in fact it was partly on the advice of Russian economists that the Icelanders told the IMF where to go.

    The real eye opener is the link to the Golman Sachs board by the two 'unelected' EU stooges who are effectively in charge of Greece and Italy..No mention of that on the BBC either.

    Note also that Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein received total compensation of $16.1 million in 2011, a 14 percent increase from the year before. Blankfein's total pay included $9,800 in matching payments to his retirement plan, $51,467 for a car and driver and $258,701 for security services. The amount Goldman paid for his security more than doubled from the year before. this arrogant and greedy man once was quoted as doing 'Gods work'.

    The Occupy Wall Street protesters marched to Manhattan's Upper East Side last October, chanting "Tax the rich!" They marched to Goldman's headquarters the next month, accusing the bank of a variety of misdeeds and demanding that Blankfein be sent to prison.

    His current salary information is due to be released anytime soon.

    So, all in all, 'watch this space' as the s***t will continue to hit the fan.

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 11:31 am

    The trouble is that in the main, these top people can do what they want and make as many mistakes as they want and they will always come up smelling of roses instead of the other "stuff".

    Their power and their money protects them from stuff that would get most of the rest of us jailed.

    It is the same old story STILL: "There are rules for "those" and then there are rules for "such as those".


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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by Guest on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 6:11 pm

    If people lived within their means (including governments) then we wouldn't be in the mess we are. Nobody forced these people to overborrow. Now its payback time.

    Blaming banks just shows how little you know about what makes the world go round

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    Post by Technician on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 8:34 am

    Hi Everyone,

    Yes Clapo, I am in agreement there. However many do not live within their means and have little knowledge of managing finances. While such bad managment contributes to personal debt ( now accounting for about 1,000 per person in the UK )it does not detract from the fact; now confirmed by many economic commentators that the banks were largely responsible for the current financial meltdown.

    Central to this is the greed and avarice by both individuals and corporate bodies. The insane ammount of money paid daily to the EU only serves to throw fuel on the fire. The actions of the Beiderbeck Group in particular are central to this corrosive greed and nepotism that effects not just the UK, but WORLD markets.

    Some countries, in particular Switzerland and Norway have been sensible enough not to be drawn into this global scam, and thus if you examine the economies you will find that they have been mostly saved from the economic woes of many of the EU countries. Likewise asian markets ( China in particular ) are very wary of the actions of the 'West'.

    Do not think by any stretch of the imagination that this is over. The next great assult will be on personal finances, particularly the fiancial resourcres of the middle classes who may within 6 -12 months find the value of their investments plumet so as to be all but worthless.

    Banks will remain dangerous places to keep money. One area of interest has been the gold reserve. If you look at global gold prices they have been steadily rising. At present there is a price hiatus ( ie, its stablised for a month or so, so now is a good time to buy before the price rises again )

    I have now bought soverigns, and the return of the gold investment far outweighs any bank rate you will find, but that is me. I am taking funds out of the banks.

    Once the assult on the middle class finances takes place and money is lost hand over fist you will find that there will be popular revolt by that group ( its alrady taking place in Greece and Spain ). This will be music to the ears of the working class who will happily join in.

    The large fiancial institutions are very worried and concerned about such backlashes, and so are governments. That is why they are moving with great care and doing things by stealth.

    Technician

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by Guest on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 8:52 am

    I don't know what you are technical with my friend, but it is not politics!

    Taking your points in turn:

    Bad debts are responsible for the 'current economic meltdown' not the banks themselves.

    The 'insane amount of money paid daily to the EU' is no more insane than money paid daily to the armed forces, the NHS, or any other government expenditure. It is called taxation.

    Minor players like Switzerland and Norway are irrelevant as both are low population resource rich economies.

    As a businessman I am all too aware it is not over, but scaremongering along the lines of your post doesn't help. We have a duty to protect the weak but it is a shared duty, not one to be avoided by blaming others.

    Nor are all banks dangerous - the biggest untold story is how the greed and avarice of a few Scottish politicians brought down the RBS and BoS in their misguided attempt to make Scotland something it is not - an independent world force.

    As to any assault on middle class finances you should remember the words of the FSA 'The value of your investment can go down as well as up - your shirt (sorry home) may be at risk...' It is never a good time to buy at the top of a commodity boom.

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    Post by Technician on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:59 am

    Hi all,

    hello Clapo,

    Thanks for the lesson. Your points are noted, but as a 'businessman' I am rather surprised that you seem not to have done your homework. However, not much to add to that.

    We are all entitled to our oppinions, and I do not consider it 'scaremongering' to be aware of what is happening and be proactive in protecting assests. I have worked hard for over 40 years in my profession, never claimed a penny, never had a loan (other than a mortgage) and paid all my taxes.

    So what little I have saved I intend to protect for my family. However,lets just wait and see if any of what I say comes to pass shall we ?

    By the way, I do not pretend to be an economist; but it is been a hobby of mine for many years now, and you are welcome to check all my 'facts' if you so wish.

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 11:49 am

    Great stuff guys !

    If that discussion says nothing else, it proves that the mess that Britain, Europe and in fact the rest of the world, including Japan, China AND India are in is NOT because of what the ordinary people on the streets, in the main, do.

    BORROWING is what makes the world go round and EVERY company, corporation and country practices this policy to a lesser or greater degree.

    The most influential pressure that was put on the American banks - that started this world-wide banking crash and everything associated with it - was when the likes of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were swallowed up in a toxic-debt morasse that was initiated by them choosing to keep lending to the sub-prime market even after they knew that most of the people who were encouraged to borrow at levels that they could not service were brought down by this debt and that this had a knock-on effect which ensured that many other banks and building societies were caught in this crash at the same time.

    The ordinary people of the world that were preyed upon by these greedy animals became the victims of this crash and while these banks and building societies were bailed out by national governments and the tax that was taken from their citizens we saw - after the dust had settled - that the fat-cat CEOs of these institutions and the reckless chancers that ran the investment banks STILL rose to the surface smelling of roses and laughing at us as they trousered the big bonuses that they were not only not due but that they should have had replaced by jail sentences.


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    Post by Technician on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 1:35 pm

    Hi all,

    hello Paps,

    Once again, thank you. A resoned and estute answer. Exactly, thank you for analysis.

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:25 pm

    Thanks for that response Technician !

    You may be interested to see the result of a shareholders revolt at Barclays bank.

    It was reported yesterday that 32% of the shareholders at that bank had taken to the streets in revolt over the level of CEO Bob Diamond's recent pay and bonuses package which was triggered by a vote which came after chief executive Diamond received 17.7 million in salary, bonus, benefits and long-term share awards for his work in 2011, despite admitting that Barclays' performance was "unacceptable" last year.

    Diamond's full remuneration package was worth the equivalent of $28.7 million or 21.7 million euros.

    So Technician, it seems that the shareholders of these banks have finally risen up and complained about how profligate their boards and remuneration committees are behaving in these days of austerity for the rest off us.

    That has to be good news for the people on the streets of Britain, America and Europe.


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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by Guest on Sat 28 Apr 2012, 5:50 pm

    I actually agree with you on the remuneration issue paps.

    Not with the way business works though. If you have to BORROW then it must be to generate profit for the company. If not, don't do it. I don't have any loans, nor do most businesses. You claim to speak for the majority paps - I am sure you don't, whereas I regularly attend business networking events and regularly hear similar opinions to my own. Any company that borrows to pay the wages for example is on the slippery slope to bankruptcy.

    As to the US situation we should get an opinion from someone over there - tuppence are you still lurking? - I don't know why these 'NINJA' mortgages were so freely available but that is what brought Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac down - they are the victims, not the man in the street.

    Stop blaming the banks and take responsibility for your own actions. You will be saying the supermarkets are to blame for making someone overweight next.

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 29 Apr 2012, 12:35 pm

    No Clapco, I won't be saying that as I firmly believe that each sane individual is responsible for his or her own actions.

    Of course it is bad policy to borrow to get out of trouble either personally or in company terms but in these days of austerity many people and companies are being forced into bankruptcy because the market and the cost of living is so tough these days.

    It is fine if people and companies borrow to grow or to get stuff faster than they would by saving for it but there is a very fine line between borrowing to survive and borrowing to grow.

    Many countries - never mind companies or individuals - are now borrowing to survive and while that is not an ideal situation it is sometimes the only way that is left to them.


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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by Guest on Sun 29 Apr 2012, 7:18 pm

    Wow! Couldn't have written it better myself.

    There are always alternatives to borrowing - ask anyone offered a loan from the Mafia!

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 30 Apr 2012, 1:49 pm

    Yes, the two alternatives are: Borrow safely and/or don't and die of hunger and cold.

    If things are allowed to keep going the way they are at the moment, those will be the only choices we will have left !

    Of course there is a third choice, but I would not recommend that to anybody: Steal what other people have and if you take that choice you will then be well in with your "Mafia" friends.


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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by Guest on Wed 02 May 2012, 8:02 am

    You dont need to borrow to stay warm and fed just live within your means.

    Quite simple really

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    Re: And we thought it had all gone Quiet !!.

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 03 May 2012, 1:29 pm

    That is such a simplistic answer that I am surprised that a clever chap like you would suggest it !

    If we were all living is some kind of Clapco utopia then that argument would hold sway, but we are not living in that particular cloud-cuckoo land.

    In real life there is a tree of..... the poor, the well-off, the rich, and the super-rich and if you were one of the ones at the bottom of that particular tree I think that you would find that it is much harder to survive at that level and pay for all that needs to be paid for in these days of austerity.

    As costs continually rise and rise and wages - if you are lucky enough to have any - are either frozen or getting eroded by inflation the temptation to go into debt to survive is a very strong temptation that is hard to resist.

    That, my friend is real life and some people are good at living like that and some are not so good and finish up as victims of the banks, the pay-day lenders and the loan-sharks.


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