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    Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 2:33 pm

    zathrus wrote:I think that the needle in your gramaphone is stuck Ivanhoe.

    There has to be more to this problem than just the "reduction of the welfare state" or "the roll of the state".

    Every country in the Western world is suffering because of the abuse of power of the globalised corporations and their governments and the little people who go to work every day, like me, and maybe even you, seem not to be considered any more.

    Happiness is usually attached to contentment and if the people are not content with their lot they are bound to also be unhappy. I am certainly neither !

    Yes, ive been waiting for this one Zathrus.

    It so happens that the European situation such as it is, has been fought against time and time again by their populas, by their little people who become giants when they consolidate, including France who have just turned Socialist again.

    The EU crisis has indeed fallen into David Cameron's lap, and therfore in my view the majority of little people Brits have indeed been brainwashed by this deficit cutting circus that Cameron continues to spoon feed us.

    The reality is that we Brit's sit on our fat backsides with the usual acceptance culture we have had primarily since the 80's, while European people kick up a fuss.

    The other reality as already mentioned, is that Cameron is using this Deficit cutting, as a cover to remove the role of the State and cut welfare, and he'se getting away with it because we Brits are friggin useless at consolidated protest. We will always remain little people because far to many little people are happily complacent

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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 1:05 pm

    Well said Ivanhoe !

    Couldn't have said it better myself.


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 1:18 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Well said Ivanhoe !

    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    It needs to be said Pap.
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by zathrus on Thu 05 Jul 2012, 1:04 pm

    And, maybe, surprisingly to you Ivanhoe, I will second that vote of confidence you received from Paps.

    You see mate, even if there was a tiny reference to the 80s hidden in that statement the whole thing just goes to prove that you can make your point without invoking the spectre of Thatcher.

    I too am with you all the way on that one.

    We definitely have a lot to learn from the French and the Greeks and the other protesting people in Europe about how to proceed properly when protesting.

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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 05 Jul 2012, 2:44 pm

    zathrus wrote:And, maybe, surprisingly to you Ivanhoe, I will second that vote of confidence you received from Paps.

    You see mate, even if there was a tiny reference to the 80s hidden in that statement the whole thing just goes to prove that you can make your point without invoking the spectre of Thatcher.

    I too am with you all the way on that one.

    We definitely have a lot to learn from the French and the Greeks and the other protesting people in Europe about how to proceed properly when protesting.

    Zathrus, Mentioning Thatcher in my EU posting would have diminished the entire piece, which is why I didnt mention her name.

    Europe is a huge place and with it come huge issues, Thatcher is/was a little Englander insect by comparison.

    The only time in general that I will bring "her" to mind, is when the sheep out there blame the "last" Labour Government for all their ills.

    Then I will happily correct them by mentioning, shh, "you know who ?"
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 07 Jul 2012, 1:26 pm

    "Thatcher".... who's that ?

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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 07 Jul 2012, 2:15 pm

    Angie baby wrote:"Thatcher".... who's that ?

    She is a green grocers daughter who became the first woman Prime Minister, who specialised in robbing the poor to give to the rich.

    This was legal because the policies were inflicted upon the British via the free -market.
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Sun 08 Jul 2012, 12:55 pm

    Ivanhoe....I think Angie's question was both rhetorical and sarcastic !

    Mind you Angie... they say that "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" lol!


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 08 Jul 2012, 1:35 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Ivanhoe....I think Angie's question was both rhetorical and sarcastic !

    Mind you Angie... they say that "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" lol!

    Pap,

    I know she was. I thought my response was rather good.
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Sun 15 Jul 2012, 3:03 pm

    I cannot see much, if any, improvement coming our way until the Justice system starts to impose realistic sentencing for crime. So many magistrates, judges, etc., just give a 'slap on the wrist' sentences, which are then automatically reduced by half. The criminals laugh, they are getting free board and lodging from the State. The United States gives much more severe penalties.

    Whilst on the subject, why can't We, the People, take our erring politicians to Court, for the crimes they perpetuate on us?

    Cheers HG
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 16 Jul 2012, 12:47 pm

    That's an interesting couple of ideas there HG.

    The trouble is that as far as more severe sentences is concerned the judges are under terrible pressure to NOT impose custodial sentences due to the jails being over-crowded already. They are building new jails all around the country to try to alleviate this problem but as soon as a new jail is built it is filled up to over-capacity soon afterwards.

    Another point here is that it has been proven that even the most severe of sentences do not have any actual lasting effect on recidivism. This is highlighted by how offenders respond to some VERY hard and long sentences in jails around the world.

    As I see it, hard jails just produce hardened criminals and long sentences just ensure that the individuals that have to serve these long sentences are institutionalised beyond help in many or even most cases.

    Now, the idea of prosecuting and jailing bent politicians...... I am with you all the way on that one.


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Guest on Mon 16 Jul 2012, 2:05 pm

    Woo hoo - with you all the way there Paps!

    Not sure about the politicos though - don't you think we would go the way of all banana republics though? The party in power locks up the opposition then there is a coup and they themselves get overthrown....best thing for politicians is to take away their power in the first place and secondly vote with your feet. Make information freely available about their personal affairs, voting patterns, 'facts' they make up to suit their arguments. Keep them honest.

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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 17 Jul 2012, 11:08 am

    This is getting to be very strange Clapco, as you and I are agreeing on a lot of stuff these days. Shocked

    Maybe I am eventually getting through to you eh ?

    I know what you mean about "banana republics" and I agree that that is what goes on there. At the same time I don't think that making our political servants more accountable and enforcing that with possible jail sentences is going to lead in to the kind of things that go on in banana republics - we are not a banana republic.....YET.

    I DO totally agree that in order to make these political public servants more accountable, they should also be made much more "transparent" in what they do for us.

    "Voting with your feet" is already in place; it is called democracy and as long as the democratic principles are applied as they should be, the effect that this is supposed to have should "keep-em-honest".


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 17 Jul 2012, 11:22 am

    papa_umau wrote:This is getting to be very strange Clapco, as you and I are agreeing on a lot of stuff these days. Shocked

    Maybe I am eventually getting through to you eh ?

    I know what you mean about "banana republics" and I agree that that is what goes on there. At the same time I don't think that making our political servants more accountable and enforcing that with possible jail sentences is going to lead in to the kind of things that go on in banana republics - we are not a banana republic.....YET.

    I DO totally agree that in order to make these political public servants more accountable, they should also be made much more "transparent" in what they do for us.

    "Voting with your feet" is already in place; it is called democracy and as long as the democratic principles are applied as they should be the effect that this is supposed to have should "keep-em-honest".

    Pap, Who was it said that "democracy is the price we pay for fools", or something like that ?
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 17 Jul 2012, 12:15 pm

    Yes Ivanhoe, I do know what you are trying to say via that quote, but I believe and have always believed, that while democracy is not perfect, it the best thing we have that enables the people to ensure that their political servants do what they/we want them to do.

    They KNOW that if they let us down their tenure in government will not be very long and the historical changes that have happened to each and every shade of politics that have been elected since the war proves that if we vote in donkeys we can always vote them out again and send them to the retirement farm where donkeys go after they have served their purpose.

    Now all we need to do is to ensure that they can no longer hide in The Lords after their wasted days in The Commons are finished.


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 17 Jul 2012, 12:31 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Yes Ivanhoe, I do know what you are trying to say via that quote, but I believe and have always believed, that while democracy is not perfect, it the best thing we have that enables the people to ensure that their political servants do what they/we want them to do.

    They KNOW that if they let us down their tenure in government will not be very long and the historical changes that have happened to each and every shade of politics that have been elected since the war proves that if we vote in donkeys we can always vote them out again and send them to the retirement farm where donkeys go after they have served their purpose.

    Now all we need to do is to ensure that they can no longer hide in The Lords after their wasted days in The Commons are finished.

    Pap, Yes I agree.............but. And it's a big but.

    While the British remain largely political docile, and fixed in their voting ways, particularly the elderly, democracy may as well go and pee in the wind.

    In my view today's politicians know this and rely on it to gain power.

    I honestly do believe that democracy is wasted in Britain, even knowing it's all we have.

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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 18 Jul 2012, 10:20 am

    Here again, I disagree with you Ivanhoe as I believe that a lot more people than you seem able to see are politically interested in what happens to them. I suppose that coming from an atheist it might seem strange to see me say that I have more "faith" in the British electorate than you seem to have.

    Having said that, I will agree that often our democratic powers are taken for granted in Britain, simply because they come too easy and are always there.


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 18 Jul 2012, 11:09 am

    papa_umau wrote:Here again, I disagree with you Ivanhoe as I believe that a lot more people than you seem able to see are politically interested in what happens to them. I suppose that coming from an atheist it might seem strange to see me say that I have more "faith" in the British electorate than you seem to have.

    Having said that, I will agree that often our democratic powers are taken for granted in Britain, simply because they come too easy and are always there.

    """"I believe that a lot more people than you seem able to see are politically interested in what happens to them"".

    Pap, a lot of people are concerned about what happens to them, of course they are, but in my view they dont make a political connnection.
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 19 Jul 2012, 10:36 am

    As happens on occasion, I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree here !


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 19 Jul 2012, 10:52 am

    papa_umau wrote:As happens on occasion, I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree here !

    Pap, you and I both know that the British largely are simply not motivated politically, unlike the German's and the French ect, who are.
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:02 am

    As I have said before many times.....You simply cannot stereotype any particular group living anywhere as even although trends do exist, all people are generally different from each-other.

    In fact it is the differences in the human condition that makes it so unique.


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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Parliament.... on Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:18 am

    papa_umau wrote:As I have said before many times.....You simply cannot stereotype any particular group living anywhere as even although trends do exist, all people are generally different from each-other.

    In fact it is the differences in the human condition that makes it so unique.

    Pap, The British at large are notoriously uninterested in politics. Personally I dont like this particular uniqueness, because we get trodden on by the powers that be, and we dont even see it coming, we suffer in silence, and the pensioners do as well, even more so.
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by zathrus on Thu 19 Jul 2012, 11:23 am

    So, what;s your answer Ivanhoe ?

    If the British people are so politically uninterested, why do you bother ?
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    Re: Is Britain becoming a miserable place within which to live ?

    Post by Hell's Granny on Thu 19 Jul 2012, 7:47 pm

    'Banana Republic' Clapco-- I thought we were already there! Twisted Evil

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