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    The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

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    The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 20 Dec 2011, 8:57 pm

    I have recently sent this to my local paper. Slightly adapted for this site.

    Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

    For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

    The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

    The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

    The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

    Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

    The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

    This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

    Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

    But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

    The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

    Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

    And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

    As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

    Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

    And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

    I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

    And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

    If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
    most vulnerable people in this country.

    This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by zathrus on Tue 27 Dec 2011, 11:59 am

    Yes, I did notice that Ivanhoe.

    The thing is that anybody that really knows what the Tories are about will not be one bit surprised about this TYPICAL move.

    Sometimes I think that the British voters are fools led by donkeys.

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 27 Dec 2011, 12:56 pm

    ""Sometimes I think that the British voters are fools led by donkeys""

    Largely, I believe this is precisely what the British people are. We are not a politically motivated nation.

    Unlike the German's, the French, and the Greeks, who are.

    The British people get precisely the politicians they deserve.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by papa_umau on Wed 28 Dec 2011, 12:37 pm

    Hi again guys...Hope you all had a good Christmas !

    Anyway..... Something tells me that the country is NOT happy with the way that things are going just now and even if they are at times a bit easily led, they can also at times rear up and throw out a useless government. ( History shows this well ).

    Cameron and his Lib-Dem poodles are not going to be able to hold the imagination of this electorate for much longer and even if we have to wait for the completion of a full term of office something tells me that the Tories and their hangers-on are not long for this world.

    You may get a surprise Ivanhoe, as even although I know that you have no faith in the British electorate I am sure that when the time comes you are going to be pleasantly surprised.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Wed 28 Dec 2011, 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 28 Dec 2011, 12:53 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Hi again guys...Hope you all had a good Christmas !

    Anyway..... Something tells me that the country is NOT happy with the way that things are going just now and even if they are at times a bit easily led, they can also at times rear up and throw out a useless government. ( History shows this well ).

    Cameron and his Lib-Dem poodles are not going to be able to hold the imagination of this electorate for much longer and even if we have to wait for the completion of a full term of office something tells me that the Tories and their hangers-on are not long for this world.

    You may get a surprise Ivanhoe, as even although I know that you have no faith in the British electorate I am sure that when the time comes you are going to be pleasantly surprised.

    Hi Pap, why should I be surprised ?. We get the politicians we deserve.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by papa_umau on Thu 29 Dec 2011, 11:38 am

    When I say "you may get a surprise" I was meaning that the electorate might prove you wrong by rising up against this incumbent bunch of no-users.

    They have done it before and they will do it again. Maybe you should have just a little bit more faith in your fellow members of the electorate.

    Then again I suppose that if you expect them to let you down and they do you are then not going to be disappointed.


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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by riders_on_the_storm on Tue 17 Jan 2012, 7:57 am

    zathrus wrote:Yes, I did notice that Ivanhoe.

    The thing is that anybody that really knows what the Tories are about will not be one bit surprised about this TYPICAL move.

    Sometimes I think that the British voters are fools led by donkeys.

    You certainly will be able to say that when they vote labour again! It's like school kids in a playground he did it no he did it ad infinitum yet can no one see that this apparent difference (left/right) is not solving anything?

    I propose that at least that people see that voting makes no real difference, this same argument has been going on for god knows how long, NHS, policing, pensions etc. in the end we all get screwed more and more no matter what bunch of cretins out of the lib/lab/con you vote for.

    Andrew

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 17 Jan 2012, 10:17 am

    riders_on_the_storm wrote:
    zathrus wrote:Yes, I did notice that Ivanhoe.

    The thing is that anybody that really knows what the Tories are about will not be one bit surprised about this TYPICAL move.

    Sometimes I think that the British voters are fools led by donkeys.

    You certainly will be able to say that when they vote labour again! It's like school kids in a playground he did it no he did it ad infinitum yet can no one see that this apparent difference (left/right) is not solving anything?

    I propose that at least that people see that voting makes no real difference, this same argument has been going on for god knows how long, NHS, policing, pensions etc. in the end we all get screwed more and more no matter what bunch of cretins out of the lib/lab/con you vote for.

    Andrew

    Hi, You might be interested to know that Britain has not had a "Labour" Government since the 1970's. What we had under Blair and Brown for 13 years was a continuation of Thatcher's free market.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 17 Jan 2012, 12:08 pm

    Hi Andrew....

    Yes, you are right that many people in Britain are, like you, wondering what party to vote for next as it does seem that each are much like the other when it comes to doing the right things - or not.

    As our friend Ivanhoe says, it is a very long time since we had a true Labour government and even if many mistakenly think that Labour and New-Labour are the same thing I have hopes that the next manifestation of LABOUR will be much closer to the original Labour party than Blair's version was.

    Of course, none of us want all of the "old" Labourites back either as the last time that they tried to run the country they failed too and the electorate chucked them out in favour of Thatcher and Major. What a terrible move that was as even if Blair supported Thatcher's totally free market economy what he did was never as bad as what Maggie did in our names.

    Personally, I have hopes that Ed Miliband's Labour government, ( if it gets in next time round ), will have all of the best things of traditional Labour with none of the bad things that the country hated. He and his advisers should - by this time - know what to keep and what to drop from "Old Labour".


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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 17 Jan 2012, 12:19 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Hi Andrew....

    Yes, you are right that many people in Britain are, like you, wondering what party to vote for next as it does seem that each are much like the other when it comes to doing the right things - or not.

    As our friend Ivanhoe says, it is a very long time since we had a true Labour government and even if many mistakenly think that Labour and New-Labour are the same thing I have hopes that the next manifestation of LABOUR will be much closer to the original Labour party than Blair's version was.

    Of course, none of us want all of the "old" Labourites back either as the last time that they tried to run the country they failed too and the electorate chucked them out in favour of Thatcher and Major. What a terrible move that was as even if Blair supported Thatcher's totally free market economy what he did was never as bad as what Maggie did in our names.

    Personally, I have hopes that Ed Miliband's Labour government, ( if it gets in next time round ), will have all of the best things of traditional Labour with none of the bad things that the country hated. He and his advisers should - by this time - know what to keep and what to drop from "Old Labour".

    ""Of course, none of us want all of the "old" Labourites back either as the last time that they tried to run the country they failed too""

    I'm sorry Pap, but how exactly did "traditional" Labour, fail ?
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 17 Jan 2012, 12:47 pm

    I am surprised that you have asked me to point out the actions that caused the "Old-Labour" government to get ignominiously booted out last time as I would have thought that you might have already known this.

    Anyway, here goes.

    For those of us that are not dogmatised by the Old-Labour hard-line ways it is easy to look back and remember what it was that caused the country to rise up against the last Old-Labour government.

    When Labour were heavily defeated in 1983 after receiving only 27% of the total vote many radical left-wing thinkers felt that the country had had enough of what was then popularly called "The loony left". With the tight connection to the very powerful unions, ( which Thatcher later destroyed ), at that time it was also suggested that the actual Labour Party were in the pockets of the ex-communist union leaders and because of this idea many people in Britain then thought that a break from union control might be a good thing to achieve.

    Along came Tony Blair and promised what he called "the best of Labour" where he embraced much of the right-wing policies of the free market economy and forged closer links with the private businesses of Britain.

    The electorate saw this as an escape from the dogma of old Labour and brought Blair and his policies back with three landslide victories where before "Old-Labour" had become completely unelectable.

    If you want to find out more and you still have an open mind read all of THIS from Wikipedia.


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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 17 Jan 2012, 1:21 pm

    papa_umau wrote:I am surprised that you have asked me to point out the actions that caused the "Old-Labour" government to get ignominiously booted out last time as I would have thought that you might have already known this.

    Anyway, here goes.

    For those of us that are not dogmatised by the Old-Labour hard-line ways it is easy to look back and remember what it was that caused the country to rise up against the last Old-Labour government.

    When Labour were heavily defeated in 1983 after receiving only 27% of the total vote many radical left-wing thinkers felt that the country had had enough of what was then popularly called "The loony left". With the tight connection to the very powerful unions, ( which Thatcher later destroyed ), at that time it was also suggested that the actual Labour Party were in the pockets of the ex-communist union leaders and because of this idea many people in Britain then thought that a break from union control might be a good thing to achieve.

    Along came Tony Blair and promised what he called "the best of Labour" where he embraced much of the right-wing policies of the free market economy and forged closer links with the private businesses of Britain.

    The electorate saw this as an escape from the dogma of old Labour and brought Blair and his policies back with three landslide victories where before "Old-Labour" had become completely unelectable.

    If you want to find out more and you still have an open mind read all of THIS from Wikipedia.

    Yes Pap, I well realised all that. I thought you were refering to actual policies .

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Wed 18 Jan 2012, 10:33 am

    riders_on_the_storm wrote:
    zathrus wrote:Yes, I did notice that Ivanhoe.

    The thing is that anybody that really knows what the Tories are about will not be one bit surprised about this TYPICAL move.

    Sometimes I think that the British voters are fools led by donkeys.

    You certainly will be able to say that when they vote labour again! It's like school kids in a playground he did it no he did it ad infinitum yet can no one see that this apparent difference (left/right) is not solving anything?

    I propose that at least that people see that voting makes no real difference, this same argument has been going on for god knows how long, NHS, policing, pensions etc. in the end we all get screwed more and more no matter what bunch of cretins out of the lib/lab/con you vote for.

    Andrew

    Hi Andrew, In a sentence, we British want everything, but we are not preapred to pay for these things through direct taxation, so since the 80's care of Thatcher, we have continually voted for right wing Governments who have cut our income taxes, but then brought in stealth taxes to compensate, which as you know hits those least able to afford to pay.

    In the political sense Britain is a low income tax nation, but at grass roots level we are a high taxed nation when we include stealth taxes.

    You say we are all get screwed more and more. The right wing use income tax cuts to get votes because by nature people want their income tax reduced, but then when the right wing get into power, their ideological Agenda comes into play, that of privatisation of our vital services.

    Basically what im saying is, and I say this again, we British either want all our vital services well funded, or we dont.

    What's your take on what ive said here ?

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by zathrus on Thu 19 Jan 2012, 11:53 am

    As far as I see it, nothing that used to be run in the public sector that was handed over to the private sector was ever the same once the profit motive came into the mix.

    Yes, such services done in the private sector may be cheaper as far as government expense is concerned but every time that this has happened the quality of the actual service has suffered.

    What needs to be done as far as I am concerned is that the next government has to have the courage to take many of these services, especially the essential ones, back into the public sector.

    Sadly, I don't think we have any such potential government amongst the candidates that will be asking for our votes at the next general election.

    Maybe Andrew is right and they are all a bunch of no-users nowadays.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 20 Jan 2012, 11:52 am

    If not inaccurate that is a very depressing point of view Zath'.

    I still reserve the hope that someone will get a grip of Ed Miliband and as a result what needs to be done will be done as the general election approaches.

    It is certain that this present bunch of confused people in government are not going to do what needs to be done, so the next best thing has to be an enlightened Labour government. ( Not New-Labour BTW ).


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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Sat 28 Jan 2012, 4:35 pm

    ""What needs to be done as far as I am concerned is that the next government has to have the courage to take many of these services, especially the essential ones, back into the public sector""

    I could not agree more.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Hell's Granny on Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:15 pm

    We have had incompetent Governments since 1997, too scared to take on the big companies, and too scared to enforce tax payments, we need some old-style, hardline politicians again.

    Cheers, HG

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:20 pm

    Hell's Granny wrote:We have had incompetent Governments since 1997, too scared to take on the big companies, and too scared to enforce tax payments, we need some old-style, hardline politicians again.

    Cheers, HG

    New Labour under Blair and Brown were not incompetent, their's was the same fundamental right wing agenda as under Thatcher. The free market which always rwards the already rich.

    It is the British people who are incompetent for continuing to vote for rigght wing government's since the 80's.
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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Hell's Granny on Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:21 pm

    I see things somewhat differently, Ivanhoe.

    Cheers, HG

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:48 pm

    Hell's Granny wrote:I see things somewhat differently, Ivanhoe.

    Cheers, HG

    H/G/ I cannot understand how you can see things differently ?, all political parties operate from their own ideoligical agenda's.

    There is no incompetence.

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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 31 Jan 2012, 12:46 pm

    I don't think we should get bogged down by the right or wrong usage of the word" incompetent" as all it means is that they are not "up to the job" no matter what their political dogma is.

    It is true that once in power almost all politicians from all political philosophies seem to just "do their own thing" and forget why they were elected in the first place.

    I have always believed that it does not really matter what direction any government is coming from, they all seem to be controlled by the rich, powerful and influential ones who ensure that they always get the "quid-pro-quo" that they are due.

    With this in mind I think that many of the people of Britain now do not know who to vote for and this is one of the reasons why the electorate seem to be just sleepwalking into disaster.

    I agree with HG that if we had more of the courageous politicians of the past we might then find that we would be more ready and able and willing to get out and vote for them.


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    Re: The Winter Fuel Payment has been cut by this coalition. How anybody can vote Tory, is beyond me ???

    Post by Parliament.... on Tue 31 Jan 2012, 1:20 pm

    papa_umau wrote:I don't think we should get bogged down by the right or wrong usage of the word" incompetent" as all it means is that they are not "up to the job" no matter what their political dogma is.

    It is true that once in power almost all politicians from all political philosophies seem to just "do their own thing" and forget why they were elected in the first place.

    I have always believed that it does not really matter what direction any government is coming from, they all seem to be controlled by the rich, powerful and influential ones who ensure that they always get the "quid-pro-quo" that they are due.

    With this in mind I think that many of the people of Britain now do not know who to vote for and this is one of the reasons why the electorate seem to be just sleepwalking into disaster.

    I agree with HG that if we had more of the courageous politicians of the past we might then find that we would be more ready and able and willing to get out and vote for them.

    Pap, I dont think we will ever again have politicians with integrity. I can see Cameron winning the next general election by a landslide, because the British "are that stupid".

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