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    A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

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    zathrus
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    A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by zathrus on Thu 29 Sep 2011, 12:37 pm

    I often read your newspaper online Paps, namely the Scottish Daily Record, and I saw something that disturbed me there today.

    What do you think of the plan that the SNP government have of removing chidren's orthodontry from standard NHS practices.

    They say in a bit of recent legislation that any "cosmetic" work that may need to be done to children's teeth will have to be done privately as they are no longer going to fund this work in Scotland.

    Forgive me if I am wrong, but does that not sound like a typically Tory way of doing things.

    I would like to hear your, or anybody-elses opinion on this SNP government plan please.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by papa_umau on Fri 30 Sep 2011, 1:21 pm

    Cheeky...Zath' Laughing

    In fact I actually noticed that one on the news last night and I too was annoyed by it.

    While I do supprt the SNP government in Scotland I also know that they are not perfect and that they do at times make mistakes.

    This is a BAD mistake as the care of children's teeth is vitally important for establishing general good health in their adult futures.

    This move will take millions of poorer Scots children out of many kinds of dental care and will ensure that the only children that will have good teeth up here will be the children of the rich, that can afford to go private.

    This well-hidden plan, ( which incidentally is in force from TODAY ), by the SNP looks like something I might have expected from a certain Maggie Thatcher during her hay days in power. ( Remember the saying....."Maggie Thatcher; milk snatcher" when she stopped the free milk to children at school ? ) A typically Tory-like move.

    The SNP government should be ashamed of themselves after this act of vandalism.


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    Angie baby
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 01 Oct 2011, 12:40 pm

    I think that that is awful too Zathrus.

    At my job as a primary school teacher I see how children's teeth develop and I know for a fact that if many of them they do not get orthodontic work done or even braces early on, their teeth start to look terrible.

    Ok, some might say that this is only superficial or even cosmetic in nature but I know because of dealing with kids all day every day that personal standards of attraction are very important for their confidence and their ability to make friends. In fact I have often see some cruel kids having a go at other ones that they think are less attractive than they are. It is vitally important for the less-able-to-mix kids to look as good as they can in the playground.

    Maybe the SNP government don't know about this or don't care but it is true and is very important to these kids and to their ongoing development.

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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Parliament.... on Sun 02 Oct 2011, 4:52 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Cheeky...Zath' Laughing

    In fact I actually noticed that one on the news last night and I too was annoyed by it.

    While I do supprt the SNP government in Scotland I also know that they are not perfect and that they do at times make mistakes.

    This is a BAD mistake as the care of children's teeth is vitally important for establishing general good health in their adult futures.

    This move will take millions of poorer Scots children out of many kinds of dental care and will ensure that the only children that will have good teeth up here will be the children of the rich, that can afford to go private.

    This well-hidden plan, ( which incidentally is in force from TODAY ), by the SNP looks like something I might have expected from a certain Maggie Thatcher during her hay days in power. ( Remember the saying....."Maggie Thatcher; milk snatcher" when she stopped the free milk to children at school ? ) A typically Tory-like move.

    The SNP government should be ashamed of themselves after this act of vandalism.

    Pap, I never agreed with the devolution of Scottish and Welsh Parliaments out from under the blanket of Westminster.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 12:44 pm

    That's another whole different ballgame Ivanhoe !

    Now that Scotland DOES have it's own "parliament" ( not an "assembly" like Wales or Northern Ireland, you will notice ), we are already well into governing ourselves in the many devolved matters that are in the perview of the Scottish Parliament.

    Even while I am a left-wing Scottish Nationalist up here I do agree that just like many other "governments" they sometimes get it wrong.

    I can tell you that our parliament up here are going to get ROASTED by their supporters and their opponents because of this bad mistake.


    Last edited by papa_umau on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 12:50 pm

    papa_umau wrote:That's another whole different ballgame Ivanhoe !

    Now that Scotland DOES have it's own "parliament" ( not an "assembly" like Wales or Northern Irealand, you will notice ), we are already well into governing ourselves in the many devolved matters that are in the perview of the Scottish Parliament.

    Even while I am a left-wing Scottish Nationalist up here I do agree that just like many other "governments" they sometimes get it wrong.

    I can tell you that our parliament up here are going to get ROASTED by their supporters and their opponents because of this bad mistake.

    Keeping things to a whole different ball game Pap, unless the Scottish Parlisament have income tax raising powersw, what's the point of devolution in the first place ?

    Incidently and on topic, why did your Parliament carry throughg this dreadful policy ?, they must have known the consequence ?
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 1:17 pm

    Ivanhoe said:


    Quote:

    Keeping things to a whole different ball game Pap, unless the Scottish Parlisament have income tax raising powersw, what's the point of devolution in the first place ?

    Incidently and on topic, why did your Parliament carry throughg this dreadful policy ?, they must have known the consequence ?

    And I say:

    While it is true that this is one of the main subjects attached to devolution in Scotland and curiously this particular point IS going through some serious discussion with the CON-DEM government at the moment, I think that actually getting tax-rasing powers is going to be hard to get outwith actual independence.

    That particular point aside I think that as we have many more devolved matters than either Wales or Northern Ireland have in devolution, to us, this matter is proceeding well towards full self-determination at some time in the future.

    NOW... to answer your question about "WHY" they did this:

    I think that they saw orthodontry as something that was not necessary as most orthodontic work that is carried out on children is for "cosmetic" reasons and not specifically for health reasons. ( I and many more parents and grandparents disagree with this as we believe that well-shaped and straight teeth for kids is paramount in them achieving the best self-respect and confidence about their looks in public that are vital so that they can take their proper place in that sub-culture ).

    Anybody that has any knowledge about the ways that children deal with each other will know that when they deal with "differences" in each-other they can be very cruel and this can lead to depresssion and loss of self-worth in the children that are less-able to stand up for themselves.

    For this reason alone good teeth that are not twisted and deformed are vital to the development of children's basic self-confidence and this IS an essential "health" matter.


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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 1:40 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Ivanhoe said:


    Quote:

    Keeping things to a whole different ball game Pap, unless the Scottish Parlisament have income tax raising powersw, what's the point of devolution in the first place ?

    Incidently and on topic, why did your Parliament carry throughg this dreadful policy ?, they must have known the consequence ?

    And I say:

    While it is true that this is one of the main subjects attached to devolution in Scotland and curiously this particular point IS going through some serious discussion with the CON-DEM government at the moment, I think that actually getting tax-rasing powers is going to be hard to get outwith actual independence.

    That particular point aside I think that as we have many more devolved matters than either Wales or Northern Ireland have in devolution, to us, this matter is proceeding well towards full self-determination at some time in the future.

    NOW... to answer your question about "WHY" they did this:

    I think that they saw orthodontry as something that was not necessary as most orthodontic work that is carried out on children is for "cosmetic" reasons and not specifically for health reasons. ( I and many more parents and grandparents disagree with this as we believe that well-shaped and straight teeth for kids is paramount in them achieving the best self-respect and confidence about their looks in public that are vital so that they can take their proper place in that sub-culture ).

    Anybody that has any knowledge about the ways that children deal with each other will know that when they deal with "differences" in each-other they can be very cruel and this can lead to depresssion and loss of self-worth in the children that are less-able to stand up for themselves.

    For this reason alone good teeth that are not twisted and deformed are vital to the development of children's basic self-confidence and this IS an essential "health" matter.

    Pap, Firstly I have never agreed with the break up of the UK.

    Secondly, there is no fairness or commonsense with todays economists. I am refering to the both Scottish and London MP's.

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    papa_umau
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 2:02 pm

    Again Ivanhoe said:
    quote:

    Pap, Firstly I have never agreed with the break up of the UK.

    Secolndly, there is no fairness or commonsense with todays economists. I am refering to the Scotting MP's.

    And that is the opinion of someone who does not seem to know what such independence is all about.

    Nationalism and the "freedom" that comes with it from the excesses of central government, while it does allow the country achieving that freedom to exert it's own self-determination against government from afar, it does not necessarily mean that the country achieving that independence will actually separate from the parent country. All it achieves - if it is done right - is a right to sovereignty and self-determination while a strong bond of alliance is still maintained.

    If you are a dyed-in-the-wool Unionist - just like the Tories are - then you will never even consider what it would be like to achieve such freedoms.

    The "economics" that you talk of, while very complicated, could easily be worked out by the experts that are working for concesus on both sides of this argument.

    The status-quo would not necessarily be the way to go in such a situation.


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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Parliament.... on Mon 03 Oct 2011, 4:22 pm

    papa_umau wrote:Again Ivanhoe said:
    quote:

    Pap, Firstly I have never agreed with the break up of the UK.

    Secolndly, there is no fairness or commonsense with todays economists. I am refering to the Scotting MP's.

    And that is the opinion of someone who does not seem to know what such independence is all about.

    Nationalism and the "freedom" that comes with it from the excesses of central government, while it does allow the country achieving that freedom to exert it's own self-determination against government from afar, it does not necessarily mean that the country achieving that independence will actually separate from the parent country. All it achieves - if it is done right - is a right to sovereignty and self-determination while a strong bond of alliance is still maintained.

    If you are a dyed-in-the-wool Unionist - just like the Tories are - then you will never even consider what it would be like to achieve such freedoms.

    The "economics" that you talk of, while very complicated, could easily be worked out by the experts that are working for concesus on both sides of this argument.

    The status-quo would not necessarily be the way to go in such a situation.



    Pap, Of course I know what "such independence" means. I am simply saying that I do not believe that the UK should be broken up.
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    papa_umau
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by papa_umau on Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:19 am

    Why does any nation within a nation being politically independent equate - in your mind - as "separation" ?

    All that such "independence" means is that - if it happens in Scotland - we will have much more say over our important legislation and over the ways that tax is raised from us. Then, the money raised by taxation would go straight to the Scottish needs and will no longer be "lost" in the coffers of the British treasury.

    Even as an independent nation we will STILL be British and European as well.


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    Angie baby
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Angie baby on Sat 08 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm

    Yes, and let us actually look at those "Acts of Union" as I believe that because of a carve-up between the Barons in England and the Barons in Scotland, Scotland was tied to England purely as a way to ensure fealty between us vassals and our feudal lords.

    Here is a section from Wikipedia that illustrates this point:


    Quote from Wikipedia:

    The Acts of Union were two Parliamentary Acts - the Union with Scotland Act passed in 1706 by the Parliament of England, and the Union with England Act passed in 1707 by the Parliament of Scotland - which put into effect the terms of the Treaty of Union that had been agreed on 22 July 1706, following negotiation between commissioners representing the parliaments of the two countries. The Acts joined the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland (previously separate states, with separate legislatures but with the same monarch) into a single, united kingdom named "Great Britain".[1]

    So, I see this need for freedom as essential in order to finally give these people a break from serfdom.

    How do you like that one then Papa ? cheers

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    zathrus
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by zathrus on Fri 14 Oct 2011, 11:29 am

    Interesting Angie.

    I would like to bet that a lot of Brits and even a few Scots would not know about that one.

    I suppose it is your work as a teacher that brings you close to such historical points ?

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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Parliament.... on Fri 14 Oct 2011, 12:36 pm

    zathrus wrote:Interesting Angie.

    I would like to bet that a lot of Brits and even a few Scots would not know about that one.

    I suppose it is your work as a teacher that brings you close to such historical points ?

    I think Mr "Z" is being "sarcie".
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by Angie baby on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 12:02 pm

    I don't think that he is being "sarky" at all as he is right because my job as a teacher means that I have to keep up to date with such information so that I can explain these actions to my wee charges.

    Anyway, I thought that personal comment was banned on ROB ?
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    papa_umau
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    Re: A question for the Scottish Nationalists.

    Post by papa_umau on Mon 17 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm

    Good point Angie !

    I do think that it is interesting to see examples of purely Scottish happenings being discussed outwith the country.


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