I am sure that most of you will agree that the latest plans for immigrants being allowed to stay permanently in Britain are basically a good idea. ( Migrants who choose to come to Scotland will get extra "points" for making this choice ).

Here is the full story from the Online Scottish Daily Record:

Boost for migrants who choose to come to Scotland

Immigrants who come to live and work in Scotland could have a better chance of earning full UK citizenship, it was revealed yesterday.

The Home Office unveiled plans for an Australian-style points systems for foreigners who want to settle in Britain.

Workers from overseas will receive extra points based on their skills and qualifications. Once they have enough points, they will be able to move to Britain permanently.

It also emerged yesterday that extra points will be given to migrants who settle in parts of the UK where population is set to fall - such as Scotland.

The move would build on the Fresh Talent Initiative, set up by former first minister Jack McConnell to let foreign students stay after graduation.

A Home Office spokesman said: "There are parts of the country where spaces in the workforce aren't being filled by UK residents and could very easily be filled by hard-working migrants."

Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy last night said he was "pleased" at the move.

He added:"Our need for a growing population is ranked alongside the need to recruit to occupations where we have a shortage."

SNP MP Pete Wishart gave the plans a cautious welcome. He said:"The Home Office must demonstrate the new points based immigration system is fit for Scottish purpose.

"Scotland's population and immigration requirements are completely different from the rest of the UK and this has to be recognised when points are added up."

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Basically, the points system will be in force for those that choose to learn English to a high standard and who either come here with good qualifications or who are willing to work hard to aquire these qualifications. Points will be taken OFF the total if immigrants get into trouble with the police or if they make little or no effort to integrate into our society. Citizenship and a British passport will be the highest prize that will be achievable via this points system.

A few people are a bit worried that if immigrants that are going through this procedure are seen to be active as even peaceful protestors this might go towards points being removed.

SO, do you think that this points system - as it is planned to work - is a good or a bad idea and why ?

Taking a stance like that one a person is at risk of being branded a racist or a xenophobe. I say that so long as we get people here that we need and can use to the betterment of the whole country then let them come in a controlled way. If they want to stay here and become "British" then they have to show that they are willing to fully integrate in as many ways as possible.

Now all I want to see is the new rules actually working.

I'm sure we have ALL the skills we need in our small island!

People applying for a fast ticket to Scotland and also in alot of cases people who go to the Republic of Ireland, there only aim is England!

No wonder swine flue spreads like wild fire in this densley populated country.

wheel.

Wheel....While you are right about the density of population in some places in ENGLAND, the fact still remains that from that density of population does not necessarily come the skills that are needed for a modern country. If all of the people of Britain were trained and qualified to the levels that are required for industry and for education and the NHS then immigration would not be required to fill all of the jobs that are going for skilled people.

The high numbers in certain areas do not supply the needs of the wealth-making industries etc' and that is why a certain amount of clever and qualified people will always be needed coming in to Britain.

As I have said many time before here....."Over the years many millions of people have come to Britain and added to the richness of the mix" and now very few of us can truly say that there is not SOME immigrant blood running in our veins. To deny this would be a very foolish thing to do !

I am sure that even the most rabid racist could not say that some kind of well-controlled immigration policy - like the policy they have in force in Australia - would not be good for Britain.

I would suggest that the new rules mentioned above seem to be heading in this direction.

nope this is madness. We do not need or want any more people in this country. Everyone I speak to is sick of it so why are they continuing with it?

As people lose their jobs and are competing with immigrants for jobs, houses and benefits then it is going to end in disaster. Don't say you've not been warned.

Andrew

I believe that while that is an honest opinion it is based on a knee-jerk response and on fear rather than on facts.

The xenophobes always pull that one out of the hat when they are trying to get the people fearful of immigration as that is the hardest argument to deny.

Britain has been a country where immigrants - initially from the commonwealth - have always been welcomed and where the vast majority of these immigrants have settled well, integrated well and been accepted by the indigenous peoples. NOW...the "indigenous peoples" INCLUDE generations of integrated immigrant families and they are part and parcel of the rich and varied life in Britain.

If reasoned people are willing to accept that this IS the case then all we have left to discuss is the RATE at which they are allowed to come and stay.

I feel that the new rules - if they are applied correctly - should allay the fears of the people that are feeling under threat from high numbers of incomers in the future.

Yes shear madness - Forget about the past and the inforced multi-race society that isn't working for the indigenous peoples!

We should learn from hindsight and the numbers of foreign peoples birth rate in the UK!

Go to Migration Watch website the non PC (Political Correct) website that tells it how it is!!!

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

The Truth is here!

xenophobes a frequently used horrible word that really descibes people who are concerned about where their country is heading and how it will end up like! - a third world overpopulated country with third world people!


wheel.

Hi again Wheel.....

It is nice to see a group that do admit that all immigration is not wrong and that are willing to admit that immigrants DO serve this country well when they are directed properly.

I think that that website does not disagree with my stance, it just puts immigration into some kind of a context so that people can stop falling into entrenched positions over the subject.

Maybe a look at the WHO WE ARE page of the website would show that controlled immigration is not a bad thing for this country.

As I see it the main problem here is the free flow across borders set up by the EU. So long as they have such an open-borders policy in Europe Britain is going to get besieged by economic migrants.

THAT needs to be fixed ASAP !

So why do we always need immigrants to prop up the economy and basically work miracles as some people would have us believe? If this is the case and if the picture in my mind of immigrants fruitfully ploughing away keeping the country's hull above water level is correct (while the lazy brits do nothing) then what did we do before mass immigration, what did our forefathers achieve - nothing?

These so-called facts on the need for immi-grant saviours are utter rubbish and you can see there is no net gain from having them here as according to the lords select committee report on immigration, which states absolutely no benefit to Britain from immigration. But then again that's racist isn't it


Andrew

No Andrew, that argument only becomes racist if you let it be !

To try to get a balanced view of immigration I look back in history where immigrants have been coming to Britain for hundreds of years and where the country is built on the skills and abilities of the decendants of these immigrants. Going back to the days of the Norman conquests and the Roman occupations the original, ( some would say the truly "indigenous" Angles and Celts etc' ), have been enriched and strengthened by the millions of peoples that have come to Britain over the centuries.

Modern immigration is exactly the same today even if the numbers coming these days are now maybe too many for Britain to assimilate and to safely add to the mix.

With this in mind I have to say that so long as immigration is controlled from both the world at large AND from greater Europe I see no reason why we cannot welcome these people to Britain so that the multicultural mix can continue to be as healthy as it has always been.

It is an undeniable fact that as people come and people go to and from Britain - for whatever reasons - Britain DOES need refreshing with new blood on a steady basis.

Far from immigrants being the work-shy and benefit-grabbing wasters that many think they are they are in fact - in the main - hard-working and wealth-creating people who - just like the best of us - enjoy their independence and their ability to look after their families and to contribute to the general economy.

Just look at the corner shops in Britain that seem able to survive the onslaught of the supermarkets as they stay open all hours so that WE can get stuff that we need at any time. Look at the legacy of the Italians that came here years ago and you will see ice-cream cafes and chip shops dotted all around the country that serve us all. Then look at the legacy of the Chinese as we benefit from their superb food at any time of the day. Finally, look at the Indian restaurants and carry-out establishments that have now become the greatest favourites for many of the peoples of this country.

Many of the "incomers" to Britain are able and willing to do jobs that the so-called "indigenous" people won't lower themselves to do and that is why we see so many of them working in minimum wage jobs that the Brits don't seem to want.

OH yes Andrew, immigration is much more than just the instinct of the encumbents to resist strangers coming to our shores. In fact there is a name for it......Xenophobia, ( or the unreasoning fear of foreigners ).

Paps

The very fact that you have to refer to historical events where the amount of immigrants, where they came from and what they actually done for the country is questionable at best, and not in any way comparable with today's situation, shows that there IS no credible case for what is happening today. Immigration today is driven by greed, money and politics.

It is known that people from Northern and Western Europe did come to Britain but it was an infintesimal amount (as a proportion of the indigenous stock) when compared to today's fiasco.

The immigrants today though do NOT in the main come from countries that have similar values and customs to ours, and they are not people who easily assimilate, no matter how much we force them.

We have already seen this with the official creation of strands of Sharia law within our courts system, what does that tell you about integration?

Also look at segregation of communities. Ask your MP or councillor if they live in a multi-racial part of town - I bet they don't.

A small amount of immigration is harmless say 5% of the population; immigrants who want to come her and adopt the British way of life, not scrounge off the benefits system and sell crack for an extra buck. Mind you all asylum seekers that are here are actually here illegally because by law they have to seek asylum in the next safe country, unless of course France has another revolution we could integrate some fleeing French royals!

Andrew

I DO hear what you say Andrew and I DO know where you are coming from !

I have already agreed that this problem has nothing whatsoever, ( or SHOULD have nothing whatsoever ), to do with traditions or colour or creed. It has to do with NUMBERS.

That was the whole point of the threadstart !

On top of the new rules and the new Australian-style points system mentioned above for immigrants coming to Britain there is now talk of curtailing these numbers of incomers to those that can prove that they can earn a minimum of £20,000 before they are allowed in.

The government's Migration Advisement Committee have suggested that as a priority immigrants should not be allowed to undercut Brits by being prepared to work for less pay. They also said that skilled jobs should be advertised in the UK for longer before being opened up to outsiders.

So, you see Andrew, many of your fears are already starting to be met and the final fear of immigrants being herded into ghettos by local authorities so that integration is much harder for them to complete also needs to be addressed as a priority.

I know that SOME incomers feel safer in the bosom of their own community and that is something WE have to work hard at trying to diminish if ever we are to see them really integrating into British society.

I think you might find that third or fourth generation immigrants that have been born here really do think of themselves as British and it is only the older generations in those families that try hard to keep their offspring close to the old traditions. As has already happened with the other immigrants that came here generations ago, these ones too will eventually feel completely British if we will let them.